Iraq is a fucking mess right now.

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Two suicide bombers blew themselves up at doors of a shrine in Baghdad, and a third detonated his bomb inside the shrine.

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Iraqi men picked through the remains left from the multiple explosions outside the Khadamiya Mosque in Baghdad, Iraq

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Bombs and explosions ripped through Shiite Muslim religious ceremonies in Baghdad and the city of Karbala today.

Article from the NY Times:

Blasts at Shiite Ceremonies in Iraq Kill at Least 143

By JOHN F. BURNS

and JEFFREY GETTLEMAN

 

Published: March 2, 2004

 

 

AGHDAD, Iraq, March 2 — Bombs and explosions ripped through Shiite Muslim religious ceremonies in Baghdad and the city of Karbala today, killing at least 143 people among the hundreds of thousands of pilgrims who had flocked to ancient shrines to pray on one of their holiest days.

 

Streaks of blood and bits of flesh clung to the tiled walls and stone floors of the Imam Musa al-Khadam shrine in the Khadamiya district of Baghdad after two suicide bombers blew themselves up at its doors and a third detonated his bomb inside the shrine, according to witnesses and a militia guard at the shrine, Hussein Hamad.

 

As panicked pilgrims fled for an exit, a fourth suicide bomber blew himself up there, Mr. Hamad and other witnesses said.

 

"Hundreds of people were in the street, and it was a big mess," said one of the caretakers of the mosque, Saad Abdul-Zahara. "As soon as the explosion hit us everybody started running. The streets were full of bleeding women."

 

He added: "I saw the suicide bomber walk into the crowd, and then he blew himself up and just disappeared. It was terrifying. There was flesh flying, there were bodies flying."

 

He and other witnesses said grenades were thrown into the crowd from the windows of a nearby hotel. Witnesses also said that a man was dragged from a hotel across from the shrine and beaten by a mob.

 

Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, spokesman for the coalition forces, told a news conference here that the blasts killed at least 85 in Karbala and 58 at the Shiites' holiest Baghdad mosque.

 

Hospital officials said that a final death toll from the Khadamiya blast had been difficult to establish because many of the bodies were in pieces.

 

"I cannot count them," said a morgue attendant, Abdullah Hatam.

 

In the holy city of Karbala, about 50 miles south of Baghdad, at least five powerful blasts struck in the middle of crowds of pilgrims who had packed the streets and shrines for the Ashoura ceremony, when Shiite Muslims commemorate the martyrdom in 680 A.D. of Hussein, the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad.

 

At the scene of one of the blasts in Karbala, a New York Times contract photographer, Joao Silva, saw at least four corpses being removed. Casualties were also loaded onto trucks and carted away from the area, which was near a mosque on a side street.

 

There was some damage to nearby buildings but no deep crater on the ground, like those left by the impact of car bombs. "People told us mortars had landed among a group of people walking to the shrine," Mr. Silva said.

 

In Khadamiya, among the body parts taken to the morgue were two severed heads, which in the past have been among the signs of a suicide bombing.

 

Corpses of women in black veils and the long robes worn by Shiites were laid out in the morgue. Outside, frantic Iraqis slapped their cheeks in grief and anger, searching the chaos for missing friends or relatives.

 

"Tell me about Hussein — is he okay?" one man asked, approaching the Iraqis trying to get inside the hospital. "No, he is dead," another replied.

 

American military helicopers circled overhead at the shrine and the hospital.

 

Iraqis waited for word of those still unaccounted for, some doubled over in grief as it filtered out. "He's gone, he's dead," said one. Rough-hewn wood coffins were loaded onto pickup trucks.

 

At one point a hospital official emerged and read a list of the names of the bodies that had been identified "Adnan Khurdaya, Mohammad Hussein . . ."

 

Men wailed, flailing their fists in the air.

 

"We are here to pay our condolences to the dead!" chanted a procession of men carrying the black flags associated with the mourning rituals of Ashoura as they marched to the hospital. "We defy you, America and Israel."

 

American troops in Humvees, machine guns mounted on top, were positioned at the hospital complex. As they drove through the gates, the crowd of Iraqis parted sullenly , letting them pass, but some shouted curses and threats.

 

Thousands of Iraqis packed the streets surrounding the Khadamiya shrine, beating their chests and chanting prayers to Imam Hussein. Some men with whips and knives flagellated themselves, part of the ritual of Ashoura which is meant to unite pilgrims in a re-enactment of Imam Hussein's suffering.

 

After the attack at the Khadamiya shrine, an angry crowd estimated in the thousands marched to a nearby American base where they started pelting soldiers and tanks with stones. A witness, Ali Heider, said the soldiers opened fire and he saw at least two Iraqis in the crowd shot.

 

It was not immediately clear who was behind the apparently coordinated series of attacks. Insurgents have launched car bombs and suicide attacks on the American occupying force and the Iraqis who work with them.

 

The American-led coalition authority is planning to hand back sovereignty to Iraqis, but it is not clear what shape the caretaker government would take once in place after June 30, nor is it clear how such a government would rule in a country faced with violence and growing religious and ethnic differences.

 

Shortly after the attack in Khadamiya, survivors gathered the shoes and sandals of victims. One distraught man clawed through the piles until he found the small pink sandals of a child. He held them up.

 

"Look at what they are doing to our children!" he said.

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An Iraqi Shiite cleans a pool of blood at the site of an explosion at a mosque in the Baghdad neighborhood of Kazimyah. Almost 140 people were killed as Shiite Muslims came under attack in coordinated attacks in the cities of Karbala and Baghdad.

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Moments after the attacks, Iraqis use a pushcart to remove from the scene victims of one of several bomb blasts which exploded in densely-occupied areas, during the holy day of Ashoura, a Shiite festival, in the holy city of Karbala, Iraq.

*believe*

hold it down cuzz!

:king: :mad:

more blood on dubya's hands.

this is just going to keep happening.

..from BBC

At least six explosions hit Karbala at about 1000 local time (0700GMT) aimed at the main mosque in the holy city.

The blasts sparked panic among the crowds who were able to observe Ashura - commemorating the death of Imam Hussein in 680 - freely for the first time in decades.

SHIA FESTIVAL: ASHURA

Annual Shia festival commemorating martyrdom of Imam Hussein

Hussein, grandson of Prophet Mohammad, killed at Karbala by army of Caliph Yazid in 680

Faithful strike themselves with chains and swords to atone for Hussein martyrdom

The murder 19 years earlier of Ali, Hussein's father, gave rise to the central schism in Islam between Sunni and Shia

People - bloodied, with limbs lost - were carried to ambulances on stretchers made from blankets and wooden carts.

"We were standing [next to the mosques] when we heard an explosion," said 18-year-old Tarar. "We saw flesh, arms, legs and more flesh. Then the ambulance came."

Confusion surrounded the cause of the blasts, with police officers running through the streets checking bins and boxes for more bombs.

Gen Kimmitt said later that there were reports of a mortar attack in Karbala, 80km (50 miles) south of Baghdad, as well as at least one suicide bomber.

The BBC's Caroline Hawley in Baghdad says the use of mortars - if confirmed - would be a new tactic for insurgents seeking to stir up sectarian tensions between Sunni and Shia Muslims.

Mortars had previously been used against coalition forces, but not Iraqi civilians.

Gen Kimmitt said three suicide bombers blew themselves up in Baghdad and a fourth was caught before detonating explosives.

Iraqi police reported they had arrested six people in connection with the attacks.

Violence had been feared but US and other coalition soldiers had left the immediate areas around the mosques to Iraqi security forces so as not to offend religious sensibilities.

In both cities, shock soon turned to anger and foreign civilians and soldiers were targeted.

But later, in active defiance of the attacks, pilgrims continued the last day of the Ashura rituals.

Religious ceremonies of the Shia Muslims - the majority group in Iraq but suppressed under the Sunni Muslim rule of Saddam Hussein - have been targeted before.

RIP

I was just going to say...this is only the beginning. Iraq was a mess before. It is a mess now and it will only get worse. I don't even think the US leaving will help that much.

I'll never understand suicide bombers and killing for religious reasons.

this is just so sad.

i hate what we are capable of doing to each other.

can i get off this sinking ship now ????? oh thats right no one can.

if saddam was still in power, none of these people would have died.

thank god we freed them from their oppressors.

Originally posted by SteveAustin

I'll never understand suicide bombers and killing for religious reasons.

how insane is it?

they are promised eternal paradise for blowing themselves and others to pieces.

of course i have no clue about after-death...

but my heart tells me there won't be a reward waiting for these mass murderers.

i wonder if their soul will realize what pain they inflicted.

i don't like the name 'suicide bomber' either.

they're 'homicide bombers'

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^^^^ I agree with this guy

Originally posted by !@#$%

i don't like the name 'suicide bomber' either.

they're 'homicide bombers'

good call. that phrase has now been forever altered in my vocabulary.

Originally posted by !@#$%

i don't like the name 'suicide bomber' either.

they're 'homicide bombers'

yeah well in reality they are neither. "a suicide/homicide bomber" is really a "strategic explosive delivery system"

Originally posted by seeking

if saddam was still in power, none of these people would have died.

I dunno about this statement...

This situation is so royally fucked I can't even begin to imagine how it can be fixed.

imagine how long we're going to be in this situation.

now that thought scares me.

sad shit only getting sadder

We can either force peace among these people like saddam did or we can give them a reason to live together peacefully in some kind of americanesque society. Which is what those pages from that book are talking about if you read that. People seem to forget that we have the same people living here in the US but without the same kinds of problems.

^ i don't agree.

while there are likely terrorists living in the u.s., our recent security situation has not been such that america is magnetizing Al-Qeada.

the irony is that there was no saddam-bin laden connection.

when we blew the infrastructure to pieces, then sent tons of troops in, we made Iraq a new american military base.

in case anyone hasn't noticed, it is in al-qaeda's sights to undermine any thing the u.s. is involved in..

it is their entire objective to destroy any potential progress in Iraq.

it isn't Iraqis who are responsible for this bloodshed.

it is terrorists, infilitrating the country to bring their jihad to america.

what an easy way to do it.

this is making the u.s. look so terrible in the eyes of the world as well.

...those are also not the same kinds of people in Iraq as in America.

america was made into a democracy BY THE PEOPLE OF AMERICA

NOT BY AN OCCUPYING POWER.

these are people who have lived in fear for the past 30 years, under a dictator installed by the u.s. government no less.

they are majority muslim, with serious divides along ethnic lines.

i don't think there are a ton of similarities here.

they also have borders that are under what protection?

who is entering Iraq with their own agenda.

it is never that cut-and-dry.

Why do I do this?

I keep promising myself I will stay OUT of these types of discussions, but I apparently just love the abuse.

I work with an enlightened Muslim African guy from Nigeria. He has lived in the U.S. about 14 years, but makes annual trips back to his parent's home to visit his family. He likes the lifestyle in America, and is subsidizing several young relatives who are attending school in various places (Nigeria and also in Europe.)

Whenever he and I discuss the situation in Africa or Iraq (Nigeria has a sort of "cold civil war" going on between Christians and Muslims) he always says the same thing:

"You don't understand the way the Muslim suicide bombers think because you are a Christian. You believe in fairness. You believe the world is perfectable, if only everyone could be educated, if they would just care about one another, if they would all work together for the common good. This is a CHRISTIAN way of thinking, even though you may not be a devout believer, it is the result of being born and raised in a Christian culture.

This way of thinking does not exist in countries like Nigeria. In Nigeria, the world is divided into two groups--those that have power and money, and those that are brutally oppressed. They don't want schools to be built, unless the schools are Muslim schools. They don't want churches to be built--the Christian religion encourages people to hope for a better life, to share, to care about other's suffering. Worst of all, it tells young women that they can be equal to men, something that is hateful to fundamentalist Muslims.

I understand perfectly why the suicide bombers attack American targets and Iraqis who work for a free Iraq--it is a demonstration of hopelessness. Their beliefs are obviously not relevant to the modern world--they are trying to compete in the 21st century with 16th century ideas. They hate the fact that they are losing, and there is no hope that their ideas will somehow be predominant.

The Americans cannot understand that. Here, people can start with nothing, as I did, and become rather wealthy. I would rather own a convenience store here than be a lawyer or professor in Nigeria. Life is BETTER here, and it cannot be denied, no matter how hard they try."

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You are right !@#$% there is absolutely NO Al Queda connection AND there has been foreign fighters in Iraq since the beginning of the war. In fact this is a golden opportunity for terrorists to attack america which is what many political analysts worth a shit have been saying from the beginning, the Osama Bin Laden has been trying to provoke a war between the west and Islam. And Bush fell right into the trap. So now we are stuck in this hopeless war that was only fought out of pride and greed in the first place. It was patently stupid of Bush to amass quite literally all of our military might in Kuwait before the war because that provided the perfect target for an Iraq that actually had WMD (which they don't.).

And you are right that the muslims here are different than the ones there. What I had meant was that they had the same ideology, but a different governmental structure which is what you said. So change the government there and the infrastructure and watch the people change as well. And you are right again that there ARE extremists here in america and I happen to know quite a few with enough ordinance to make 9-11 look like some kid was playing with matches. But notice they aren't taking action. Democracies strength is open debate. I think that we all here in america no matter how different we are cherish that right to open debate and we won't pursue violence until reason has been exhausted. Though bush is really pushing it let me tell you.

Tease: You have no reason. Stop being so damn violent. They aren't retaliating against the terrorists because nobody even knows who the terrorists are. And sometimes people even agree with the terrorists, even though they may not like them because many people over there have a common enemy in the US because of all the shit we've done to them. Do you want to resolve this in a civilized manner or are you going to drag out a hopeless war?

Just a bad idea from start to finish......

(a history lesson for tease)

the real problem is in the past.

that's why we are so fucked.

the u.s. supported and trained bin Laden to fight against soviet u.s.s.r.

then we abandoned his country once it had given us what we wanted: victory over the commies

the u.s. installed and supported Saddam Hussein.

we liked him back in the day, i'm sure oil interests were very important to that relationship.

he stopped doing what we wanted.

we sent in the CIA to start a civil war, which IT DID.

then the u.s. ABANDONED the iraqis.

they were OBLITERATED by saddam.

part two of that story was after the Kuwait invasion.

Bush one wasn't willing to finish what he started, and more insurgent iraqis were slaughtered..

See a PATTERN developing here?

the u.s. has always had its own interests at heart, then when we get what we want, we abandon the rest of the job (as we're doing in afghanistan right now, again)

our war in iraq was not one of liberation.

it was revenge, spurned along by oil interests.

the iraqis aren't stupid.

when families are slaughtered during a war they didn't want, by an occupying power they don't like, more terrorists are CREATED.

read what Iraqis have to say about all this.

who can be surprised that the people hate an occupation.

imagine for minute what that would be like here and how our own citizens would respond to such treatment.

yes, lets be real.

the united states, with its own fucked foreign policy decisions, is at the very least partly responsible for the inception and mission of Al-Qaeda.

Re: Why do I do this?

Originally posted by KaBar2

I keep promising myself I will stay OUT of these types of discussions, but I apparently just love the abuse.

 

I work with an enlightened Muslim African guy from Nigeria. He has lived in the U.S. about 14 years, but makes annual trips back to his parent's home to visit his family. He likes the lifestyle in America, and is subsidizing several young relatives who are attending school in various places (Nigeria and also in Europe.)

 

Whenever he and I discuss the situation in Africa or Iraq (Nigeria has a sort of "cold civil war" going on between Christians and Muslims) he always says the same thing:

 

"You don't understand the way the Muslim suicide bombers think because you are a Christian. You believe in fairness. You believe the world is perfectable, if only everyone could be educated, if they would just care about one another, if they would all work together for the common good. This is a CHRISTIAN way of thinking, even though you may not be a devout believer, it is the result of being born and raised in a Christian culture.

This way of thinking does not exist in countries like Nigeria. In Nigeria, the world is divided into two groups--those that have power and money, and those that are brutally oppressed. They don't want schools to be built, unless the schools are Muslim schools. They don't want churches to be built--the Christian religion encourages people to hope for a better life, to share, to care about other's suffering. Worst of all, it tells young women that they can be equal to men, something that is hateful to fundamentalist Muslims.

I understand perfectly why the suicide bombers attack American targets and Iraqis who work for a free Iraq--it is a demonstration of hopelessness. Their beliefs are obviously not relevant to the modern world--they are trying to compete in the 21st century with 16th century ideas. They hate the fact that they are losing, and there is no hope that their ideas will somehow be predominant.

The Americans cannot understand that. Here, people can start with nothing, as I did, and become rather wealthy. I would rather own a convenience store here than be a lawyer or professor in Nigeria. Life is BETTER here, and it cannot be denied, no matter how hard they try."

This is an interesting take on the situation. The fear of becoming obsolete. Personally I think that the western way can do with some discipline. Look at all the mindless yahoos running around with their cocks hanging out. Perhaps we should embrace them I really think it would be a positive influence. Hakim Bey has an intersting take on this with Jihad being the natural enemy of capitalism. I wish Hakim Bey wrote more books.

tease.

they would have wanted help with what?

blowing up their country?

part of the reason why iraq was in trouble was because sanctions WERE WORKING.

the only reason we got involved with iraq was oil.

look at how we handled haiti.

hmm, odd, they have no valuable natural resources.

or what of the congo?

why didn't we help them?

those people were being opressed and merdered by a brutal dictator who was de-stabilizing that whole region around him.

we sat back and watched.

Robert Mugabe makes saddam look like a powder puff.

I believe our schism with iraq began when saddam wanted control over a water resource there. I would offer a more detailed explaination but I have duty soon. Peace ppl

Damn, the body count is up to 114 now.

KaBar2: I honestly wouldnt be surprised if you were born a little mentally retarded.

i find myself agreeing less and less with kabar all the time, but i still feel he has a hell of alot more worthwhile oppinions to contribute to this forum than you seem to.

go back to paper chase or the yard or something, and beg for krink recipes, jerk off.

Originally posted by villain

We can either force peace among these people like saddam did or we can give them a reason to live together peacefully in some kind of americanesque society.

Yea but how? How do you force peace like Saddam? First of, the U.S is seen as an invader in the middle east. Any overuse of force and you invite more blood not only in Iraq but at U.S. embassies or allies. Secondly , Saddam ruled with an iron fist and few questioned his authority. People aren't as afraid of the US as they were of Saddam. Saddam was like the Mafia and the U.S. is like a police force.

I honestly dont think there can be Ameriican democracy in Iraq. Atleast not any time soon. I The whole thing is so complicated. At the end of the day Iraq will probably just have another Saddam just like Haiti a decade ago.

Originally posted by El Mamerro

I dunno about this statement...

 

 

This situation is so royally fucked I can't even begin to imagine how it can be fixed.

Hint: there was never a suicide bombing in Iraqi history, until after George W. Bush initiated the "regime change". Now there are currently more frequent and deadly suicide bombings in Iraq than any other country in the world (including Israel, which is currently pretty quiet on the suicide bombing note).

Seeking was right.

yea.....we done fucked them over real bad:dazed: ;)

rip

what are we gonna do? :(