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I await further elucidation tomorrow.

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by imported_Tesseract, Jun 29, 2004.

  1. This thread is more or less directed to mamerro and sadly enough should interest less than a dozen more...as a reference for you few heres where it all began



    ...Many people concider those schematics, diagrams and illustrated 'how to' user manuals as a pop art thing. For the most part its because those kind of drawings are so close to comics easthetics and american hotdog mega fonts...stuff widely used and played the fuck out by Roy Lichtenstein and Andy Warhol

    http://www.poster.net/lichtenstein-roy/lichtenstein-roy-whaam-b-2801611.jpg'>[img]http://www.anthonymeierfinearts.com/inventory/images/warhol.jpg'>

    I dunno if i ever told you this but popart grosses the fuck out of me...its the artsy product of a stupid subject in human history to begin with...a shit that someone stepped on and brought it on your floors house..but anyway, fuck this right now

    My theory about these drawings is pretty much based on the fact that drawing to me is suposed to embody and carry messages that are hidden in first glance but still effective and powerfull.

    In the pictures of christ and saints in general, during the byzantine empire, there are symbolisms and cliches used all the time but not spotted at once. All saints have:
    -Big Eyes (they see everything)
    -Small mouths (they dont talk much, they're humble, etc etc)
    [img]http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/icons/data/wetbeard.gif'>

    You clearly see that those proportions are rather impossible, yet they're used to state an idea, make an impression and carry a solid message.

    Its an exageration the artist makes in order to connect with the mind via visuals than just pleasure the iris like romans did by making a more human but fakely perfect figure:


    [img]http://www.adishakti.org/images/jesus_and_mother.jpg'>

    Now, off the religious trip, i think that those 'how to' drawings use more or less the same techniques...although at first everything seems drawed out accuratelly and precise, resembling reality...you notice that in order to emphasize and make sense there arent many laws of nature left to be broken in those lines

    If you watch the
    [url=http://www.zalman.co.kr/upload/product/ZM80D-HP.swf]animation that brought up the whole deal[/url] again under this perspective you can clearly see that even if the feeling is very scientific, accurate and naturalistic..the draw is pretty much pshychedelic to the bone...perspectives change all the time, parts fade in and out etc etc...imagine if you could see that 70 years ago...it wouldnt mean shit and you couldnt understand shit...its a drawing that serves function and an aesthetic value that comes from function...i love it.

    So poorly written and illustrated, this is pretty much my theory on all that.
    cheers
     
  2. Awesome. There really is a very specific aesthetic these works give off, which are a direct result of their need to convey very specific practical information. I've always laughed at how axonometric perspectives, which are really weird and absolutely impossible modes of seeing things, are in fact used to make visual descriptions of how things function in real life. It's like looking at an object from several angles at once and getting a better look at its entirety... it's one step removed from looking at 3D objects with a 4D eye.

    Now that you mention it, it is indeed VERY odd that it hasn't been twisted into some sort of fancy art movement, at least nothing beyond a handful of ventures. The whole prespective shift thing relates a lot to cubism, and the commercial tone relates to pop art (which I agree with you, I fucking hate it). Good. That means hipsters like you and I can feel all cool about being in the know, and if it ever gets big, we can be like "Yo, we we're rocking that shit before they were cool". It'll be our trucker hats.

    And to get back to the awesomeness of technical drawing, here's a dope site. It even has a step-by-step demo on a 720-hour illustration project of a cruise ship cutaway.

    http://www.khulsey.com/honda.jpeg'>

    [img]http://www.khulsey.com/engineongrid.jpeg'>

    [img]http://www.khulsey.com/tacoma.html'>


    Keep in mind, these guys nowadays use a lot of CAD processes... this shit used to be done fully by hand with airbrushes. Just imagine how hard that must be, to get every single nut and bolt in the right position at the right angle... one slightly offset part could mean fucking up the entire illustration... it's insane.
     
  3. Kr430n5_666

    Kr430n5_666 Banned

    Joined: Oct 6, 2004 Messages: 19,229 Likes Received: 30
  4. Its insane indeed and that was a hell of a reply...the 4-d comment nails shit down...i have already made an animation using those techniques talking about dimensions and time..its based on a tesseract:idea:

    Maybe i can shoot it to you over slsk one day.
     
  5. duh-rye-won

    duh-rye-won Member

    Joined: Aug 8, 2001 Messages: 580 Likes Received: 2
    fuck yeah. great thread. i'm a product designer so i encounter things that relate to this all the time. although i'm a designer and not an engineer, i do a lot of control drawings (front, side, top, back, cross-section views) for my product designs.

    although doing these kinds of drawings is purely for providing exact detailed information, i definitely think they can be viewed as art. some people are so fucking nasty with these kinds of technical drawings it's mind boggling. and there IS an art to doing it in deciding how to lay out the page and what details require focus.

    I actually have only one piece of "art" hanging in my apartment. it's an engineering drawing the factory did of a design i did for a bicycle my company is making. something about the drawing is just amazing. i guess it's partly because the original design was mine, so it's cool for me to see someone else with sick skills transform my sketches into an ill engineering drawing.

    well i guess i'm slightly off your original topic, but it seems similar to me. dope thread.
     
  6. Pfffffffffft

    Pfffffffffft Moderator Crew

    Joined: Feb 16, 2004 Messages: 15,344 Likes Received: 671
  7. Not off topic at all, i'd love to see that piece you're talking about btw, hook it up !

    On a sidenote, statistical graphs also have to deal with similar probems, leading into very interesting forms and ways to present an idea, a value...this is one of the sickest books i've ever come across. I highly recomend it.
     
  8. Kr430n5_666

    Kr430n5_666 Banned

    Joined: Oct 6, 2004 Messages: 19,229 Likes Received: 30
  9. That Tufte book fucking CRUSHES. I was an intern at a information design firm during my senior year of college and that was basically our Bible. SO fucking dope.

    And yeah, I remember you telling me about that animation you made... always wanted to see it. It was in 3D StudioMax right? You can probably cop a Siwft 3D plugin and convert the movie to Flash, then post it. Yes, that would be the hotness.

    One of the client projects I'm working on is a demo for an accounting software company, trying to describe in visual means how the user client software communicates with the company server, how it encrypts data, etc. It's a fun little project.

    Iquit, I studied Industrial Design, I had to go through the whole product design training, it was fucking awesome... did the whole control drawings and drafting dilly. I've done some product work (footwear design), but I've since shifted more to the whole interactivity arena. I'd love to see your stuff.
     
  10. thecarwreck

    thecarwreck Senior Member

    Joined: May 14, 2003 Messages: 1,006 Likes Received: 67
    All the art geeks come out of the woodwork. Awesome. There are about a thousand different threads you can pull out of this little bit right now, but the whole "possibility" of co-opting the technical aspect of drawing is what's really intriguing. Until these pieces stop serving an essentially capitalist-centered purpose (what amounts to a "look how well our shit is designed! Buy it instead of the other guy's!" statement), they will never make it into the aesthetic realm of "fine art."

    Now, as pessimistic and desperately leftist as that may sound, there has always been that distinction between the technical and the aesthetic. Look at the shit that the early and mmiddle moderns were doing (as a weak example). Duchamp's "Nude Descending a Staircase" as well as Giacomo Balla's "Dinamismo di un cane al guinzoglio (Dynamism of a Dog on a Leash)" both sought to transcend that 3D space via an aesthetic mode. Technical, yes, but if the technical was to be considered "art" then DaVinci's schematics from centuries before would have been more prized.

    Shit, my wife's an art historian, I better talk to her....

    If you really want to get tech (and confuse this whole thing even more), we can talk Fractals...
     
  11. Not really, i did that years ago and just like now..i dunno shit about 3d studio max...the deal was that i made like 100 skecthes by hand to organise my stuff and then went to a good friend that is matrix status animator and hooked it up exactly as i planned...after i dropped that piece on an animation exhibition the cd with the original 3dMax files got lost...how nice..so no, all i got is an .avi, ha

    Anyway, this thread is like old 12oz rockin convos, glad to see the carwreck comin correct and all the biatches absent
     
  12. LaCosaNostra

    LaCosaNostra Senior Member

    Joined: Feb 3, 2004 Messages: 2,191 Likes Received: 0
    I got confused after the description of Greek homie and the saint. Sounds interesting, but I need clarity. What did that animation have to do with anything?(yea, I watched the whole thing.)Help!
     
  13. Gunm

    Gunm Banned

    Joined: Aug 31, 2003 Messages: 12,427 Likes Received: 1
    Mammero, never had a clue you possesed so much insight and know-how into the world of art, culture and associated computer programs.
    Tesseract knows his stuff for certain....good to read something that has substance.

    I disagree somewhat with the statements concerning PoP art. The art itself is created to be aesthetically pleasing and bring to mind associations between image and that which is tangible in the real world.
    Doesn't looking at a painting or a piece of fine art accomplish the same goals?

    Anything has the potential to be recognized as a piece of art when looked at from the right angle or when focus is paid to a certain angle, view, or portion of any given object or form. This is what Warhol and Lichtenstein were so good at. They could focus upon the something either in it's entirity(sp) or just a portion and amplify the message or idea behind it. The problem though is that most would assume that mounting a box of Captain crunch in a gallery would afford it "pop" status" but there's always something missing much like someone who baked a picture perfect pie that has no flavor.

    Sorry if I was talking out of my ass but it's been days since I actually got in the mix with a discussion of this sort.
     
  14. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5
    good thread. i saw a thing on dennis hopper tongith..i think it was on 60 minutes. hopper has a big keith herring and a giant basquiat in his house...
     
  15. High Priest

    High Priest Elite Member

    Joined: Jan 1, 2002 Messages: 4,928 Likes Received: 3
    I actually took the time to read the post's in this thread, and found it to be well worth it. Its kind of a downer that more threads like this cant be found on the site, quantity over quality I suppose.
     
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