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How two philosophers and a farmer cracked an age-old conundrum

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by GamblersGrin, May 25, 2006.

  1. GamblersGrin

    GamblersGrin Elite Member

    Joined: Sep 24, 2003 Messages: 3,243 Likes Received: 16
    duh, its science!

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2196880,00.html


    How two philosophers and a farmer cracked an age-old conundrum

    By Alan Hamilton
    It was the egg that came first, not the chicken, according to a study of the poultry pecking order

    [​IMG]IT IS the ultimate conundrum of the poultry world, debated by generations of scientists, academics and philosophers.
    Which came first: the oval thing with the hard shell, or the dim-witted, toothless bird that clucks as it crosses the road for no obvious reason? Now two of the best brains in the land (and a chicken farmer) claim to have solved the catch 22. The answer, it has been decreed, is the egg.
    NI_MPU('middle');And here follows the science, expressed as far as possible in terms a reasonably educated hen would understand.
    Genetic material does not change during an animal’s life. Therefore, the first bird that evolved into what we would call a chicken, probably in prehistoric times, must first have existed as an embryo inside an egg.
    Professor John Brookfield, a specialist in evolutionary genetics at the University of Nottingham, who was put to work on the dilemma, said that the pecking order was perfectly clear: the living organism inside the eggshell would have the same DNA as the chicken that it would become.
    “Therefore, the first living thing which we could say unequivocally was a member of the species would be this first egg,” he said. “So I would conclude that the egg came first.”
    David Papineau, an academic specialising in the philosophy of science at King’s College London, concurred. In his view, the first chicken came from an egg, which, he claims, proves that there were chicken eggs before there were chickens. Here, the science moves out of reach of the hen-brained. Professor Papineau maintained that people were mistaken if they argued that the first chicken egg was a mutant produced by non-chicken parents.
    “I would argue that it is a chicken egg if it has a chicken in it,” he said. “If a kangaroo laid an egg from which an ostrich hatched, that would surely be an ostrich egg, not a kangaroo egg.”
    It is perhaps best at this difficultjuncture to gloss over the fact that a kangaroo is a marsupial and does not lay eggs in the way that chickens or ostriches do — or all. Rather, it gives birth to a joey.
    Also, a kangaroo bouncing around the Outback would be highly unlikely to come across an ostrich with which to attempt such an unlikely union. These overgrown birds inhabit an altogether different continent.
    Charles Bourns, a chicken farmer and chairman of the trade body Great British Chicken, also favours the egg argument. He said: “Eggs were around long before the first chicken arrived. Of course, they may not have been chicken eggs as we see them today, but they were eggs.”
    If they had been around so long, and were presumably missing their best-before date stamp, they would have been best avoided.
    The “chicken v egg” debate was prompted by the Disney film studio to mark the release of its movie Chicken Little on DVD. But the learned discussion poses more questions than it answers. Creationists, for example, will argue that if God created Adam and Eve, he probably had a spare five minutes to knock up a chicken as well. Science still has many unanswered questions, such as what existed before space? What do you come to when you pass the restaurant at the end of the universe?
    If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one there to hear it, does it still make a noise? And exactly which law of physics will allow Michael Ballack enough time away from the Chelsea playing field to soend £130,000 a week?
    But the biggest question of all remains unanswered: what laid that first egg, if it wasn’t a chicken?
     
  2. shaolinmasta

    shaolinmasta Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 26, 2003 Messages: 7,884 Likes Received: 157
    Who the fuck knows, it's evoloution son
     
  3. skullnbones

    skullnbones Elite Member

    Joined: Mar 20, 2004 Messages: 3,759 Likes Received: 53
    which came first the chicken or the egg
    i ate the chicken and then i ate his leg.



    thanks to this thread i will now have this beastie boys lyric in my head for the day.
     
  4. Future Droid

    Future Droid Senior Member

    Joined: Jul 21, 2003 Messages: 1,077 Likes Received: 1
    yeah the line could become really blurred when taking evolution in account.
     
  5. HydrogenPeroxide

    HydrogenPeroxide Elite Member

    Joined: May 1, 2006 Messages: 2,672 Likes Received: 88
    haha, i can imagine this being said in some sort of monty python sketch
     
  6. Hayabusa

    Hayabusa Veteran Member

    Joined: Apr 7, 2006 Messages: 6,501 Likes Received: 209
    fuck im not reading all that
    someone wanna give me like a two line summary or something?
     
  7. AyeBee

    AyeBee Veteran Member

    Joined: Apr 7, 2006 Messages: 5,798 Likes Received: 29
    I can do you one better, break it all down to one line

    "The egg came first"
     
  8. Flavicon

    Flavicon Senior Member

    Joined: Aug 18, 2005 Messages: 2,367 Likes Received: 18
    more fark content,

    I'm on to you

    :scowl:
     
  9. David Hasselhoff

    David Hasselhoff New Jack

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 64 Likes Received: 0
    i figured that shit out when i learned about evolution in like 9th grade. write an article about me motherfucks.
     
  10. GamblersGrin

    GamblersGrin Elite Member

    Joined: Sep 24, 2003 Messages: 3,243 Likes Received: 16
    i do get many news articles from there. that place is better than most legit news services.
     
  11. Ckit

    Ckit Member

    Joined: Mar 10, 2003 Messages: 725 Likes Received: 1
    Neither chickens nor their eggs exist. It is a fabrication perpetuated by the Cuban government to spread fear of Avian Flu.
     
  12. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 621
    it's definitely an interesting philosophical and scientific question
    (i like the others listed at the end of the article..haha)

    and yeah, for me, a more pressing question is: what lies beyond the limits of the universe
    and if the universe was once really super small, what else was there?

    i'm thinking quantum physics will start cracking some of this shit in the next hundred years
     
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