Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum...
    You are currently logged out and viewing our forum as a guest which only allows limited access to our discussions, photos and other forum features. If you are a 12ozProphet Member please login to get the full experience.

    If you are not a 12ozProphet Member, please take a moment to register to gain full access to our website and all of its features. As a 12ozProphet Member you will be able to post comments, start discussions, communicate privately with other members and access members-only content. Registration is fast, simple and free, so join today and be a part of the largest and longest running Graffiti, Art, Style & Culture forum online.

    Please note, if you are a 12ozProphet Member and are locked out of your account, you can recover your account using the 'lost password' link in the login form. If you no longer have access to the email you registered with, please email us at [email protected] and we'll help you recover your account. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum (and don't forget to follow @12ozprophet in Instagram)!

Hate Crimes in Paris.

Discussion in 'News' started by MAR, Feb 25, 2006.

  1. MAR

    MAR Veteran Member

    Joined: Jun 2, 2005 Messages: 7,264 Likes Received: 256
    Hate.

    Killing in France Seen as 'Wake-Up Call'
    Anti-Semitism Blamed in Kidnapping, Torture of 23-Year-Old Salesman

    By Molly Moore
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Saturday, February 25, 2006; Page A10

    PARIS, Feb. 24 -- One day last month, a young woman entered the Paris mobile phone shop where Ilan Halimi worked. She had no interest in a new phone, according to Paris police. She wanted to flirt with the 23-year-old salesman. She left the shop with Halimi's cell phone number, and soon after, the two arranged a date.

    Last week, French police found Halimi -- the son of Jewish Moroccan immigrants -- near a railroad track in a southern Parisian suburb. His naked body was covered with cigarette burns and he was handcuffed. He died in an ambulance on the way to the hospital.

    French police initially described the brutal kidnapping and killing as a crime-for-cash perpetrated by a gang calling itself "The Barbarians." It routinely used young women to lure unsuspecting victims.

    But in ensuing days, family members, Jewish organizations and a French magistrate labeled the killing a hate crime, directed against Halimi because of his religion. Many have cited the torture and reports that the gang's suspected leader was later arrested in a Muslim neighborhood in Ivory Coast, in West Africa.

    In a country that experienced a surge in anti-Semitic attacks, most of them blamed on Muslims, in the first years of the current Palestinian uprising against Israel, top politicians have rallied to publicly condemn the crime. Dozens of national leaders, including President Jacques Chirac, crowded into a memorial service for Halimi at a Paris synagogue Thursday night.

    "The truth is that these hoodlums first of all acted for villainous and sordid reasons -- money," Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy told French legislators this week. "But they had the belief, and I quote, that 'Jews have money,' " he said, referring to police interrogations of two people accused of involvement in the kidnapping.

    The crime has incited outrage among Jews across France. Many fear that animosities simmering below the surface of a divided French society could easily reignite. There are about 6 million Muslims in France and 600,000 Jews.

    "Ilan's death may be an isolated action, but it is also a wake-up call," said Sarah Aizenman, a representative of the French Union of Jewish Students. She said anti-Semitic crime has declined in France in recent months but threatens to rise again.

    "The engine wasn't anti-Semitism, but the fuel certainly was," said Michel Wieviorka, author of the recent book "The Anti-Semitic Temptation: The Hatred of Jews in Today's France."

    "It was based on the idea that the Jews are wealthy, and that if the boy doesn't pay, the community will," Wieviorka said.

    Ruth Halimi, the victim's mother, told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, "If Ilan hadn't been Jewish he wouldn't have been murdered."

    She said she last saw her son alive on Friday, Jan. 20, as he was leaving for a date with the woman who had come into his shop. "On Saturday night, he called and said he had been kidnapped and asked us to check our e-mail," Halimi said. A message there included a photograph of Ilan, blindfolded and with a gun pointed at his head. The text read, "450,000 euros or call the funeral home," she said. That sum is equal to about $540,000.

    Over the next three weeks, the kidnappers negotiated with Ilan's family members. Halimi told Haaretz that on instructions from the police, the family stopped answering telephone calls and text messages from the kidnappers in order to force them to use e-mail that might be tracked to Internet cafes from which they transmitted messages. The ransom demand eventually dropped to 5,000 euros, or about $6,000, French newspapers have reported. It is unclear what ultimately prompted the kidnappers to dump their dying captive.

    The suspected gang leader, Youssouf Fofana, 26, fled France and was arrested Wednesday in Ivory Coast. Police have detained 16 other people for questioning in connection with the case.

    The members of the group have a variety of ethnic and religious backgrounds, French police said. But most appear to be residents of the same low-income housing project in the suburb of Bagneux, southwest of Paris.

    A rash of arson incidents and clashes with police erupted across the Paris suburbs last fall, spreading to virtually every town in France. Much of France's immigrant populations and their children live in suburban housing built by the government.

    With high unemployment and crime and substandard living conditions, the youth populating the suburbs have become increasingly angry. Although last fall's violence had no overt religious overtones, many of the rebellious youth were Muslims.

    French officials and Jewish leaders have been hesitant to allege that the killing was solely an act of anti-Semitism. "The question is, what kind of anti-Semitism are we talking about?" said Michel Serfaty, a rabbi at the synagogue in the Paris suburb of Ris-Orangis and an activist promoting Jewish-Muslim dialogue.

    "It's a combination of gangsterism, villainy and old cliches where Jews mean money," Serfaty said. "It's young people of all origins in the suburbs expressing their resentment: 'The Jews are rich and they don't share it with us. They're smart and we don't have jobs. They dominate the world and we have no power.' "

    Emmanuel Weintraub, an official of the Representative Council of French Jewish Institutions, said the case reflects deeper troubles in French society. "There's something striking about this gang," he said. "It's a pretty big cross section of our multiethnic society. It's the story of a group of friends who went too far. It shows a far-reaching phenomenon of social decay."

    Researcher Marie Valla contributed to this report



    This is the most recent event. There have been more blatent attacks on Jewish people and Synogoges. French Jews are moving to Israel to escape the hate. One girl I met in Israel told me that most Jews are afraid to wear yarmulkas outside (headcovering) for fear of being harrassed or even attacked.
     
  2. Dawood

    Dawood Elite Member

    Joined: May 8, 2002 Messages: 4,677 Likes Received: 146
    Damn, I'm so sick of everytime a "so called" muslim allegedly commits a crime they mention him as a "muslim" attempting to tie these crimes to a religion that is as far as the heavens and the earth from such a thing.

    Why didn't they mention Timmy Mcveigh as a christian in the media? Or any person who commits a crime daily in a christian dominated county? why don't they mention them? What about when a hindu commits a crime, do they blame Hinduism for what he did?

    and what was the need for this thread anyway?

    I think I need to open a few threads .
     
  3. MAR

    MAR Veteran Member

    Joined: Jun 2, 2005 Messages: 7,264 Likes Received: 256
    This wasnt some anti-muslim thread, untwist your panties.

    If I wanted to make one I wouldnt beat around the bush.
     
  4. Dawood

    Dawood Elite Member

    Joined: May 8, 2002 Messages: 4,677 Likes Received: 146
    I wasn't accusing you, but look at the way the journalists write every story involving a person who comes from any hint of an Islamic background.

    and, I wear boxers.
     
  5. MAR

    MAR Veteran Member

    Joined: Jun 2, 2005 Messages: 7,264 Likes Received: 256
    This was a hate crime. The men, who's innitial intention was money, moved to tourture their prisoner because he was jewish. It could have been anyone; Christain, Muslim, whoever. But the focus, at least for me for posting this, was to show people that jews arent just paranoid, the hate still exists.
     
  6. Dawood

    Dawood Elite Member

    Joined: May 8, 2002 Messages: 4,677 Likes Received: 146
    It's possible, it's also possible that he wouldn't give up the loot, so some punk stick-up kid was putting his cigarette butts out on him to get him to talk. maybe they knew he was jewish, maybe they didn't. I think It's a bit of a stretch to say for sure that this is a hate crime based on what i read.
    It seems like they were trying to extort him.

    even the article points out--------"French officials and Jewish leaders have been hesitant to allege that the killing was solely an act of anti-Semitism."

    So, it couldv'e went either way...as long the story is used to further the hate and distrust of Muslims everything works out for whoever wants to spread that particualr brand of anti-semitism huh?
    aren't arab muslims semites too? hmmmm,??
     
  7. MAR

    MAR Veteran Member

    Joined: Jun 2, 2005 Messages: 7,264 Likes Received: 256
    this implies that the crime was a hate crime but their were other motivations.

    why dont you man up? Say it was wrong, that they arent the good muslims and dont reflect the whole community, instead of making excuses.

    Unless of course you think they were justified.
     
  8. Stereotype V.001

    Stereotype V.001 Member

    Joined: Jun 9, 2005 Messages: 416 Likes Received: 0
    Stay with me on this one dawood, its very simple. Timothy McVeigh blew up a federal building because he disliked the federal government and wanted revenge for Waco Texas. Therefore, he is labeled a right wing extremist. When Al Qaeda suicide bombers blew themselves up in a wedding, it WAS because of religious beliefs. Therefore, they label them or any other terrorists who are religiously motivated as MUSLIM terrorists. That is also why the last words are always “Allah akbar.� They view what they are doing as a “jihad�. Do you remember that part of the Qu’ran? Something about a “holy war�? The 6th pillar of Islam I believe? Yeah, no religious implications there. Let’s just ignore why they are doing it...hell let's just ignore it all together. Probably just some jew trickery, like the holocaust(sarcasm, incase you didn't pick up on it)!

    If a Jewish guy was to kill his roommate because he couldn’t find that ultra soft two ply silky TP, I’d be willing to bet he wouldn’t scream “Yahweh is the greatest dude!� The Christians who were stealing body parts weren’t quoting scriptures in the process. Do you get it now? A little bit simpler, it is because terrorism carried out by groups like Al Qaeda, or Abu Sayyaf, is directly caused by their religious beliefs as Muslims (regardless if you disagree as a moderate muslim). Cry me a river, my ISLAMIC MUSLIM internet friend.
     
  9. Stereotype V.001

    Stereotype V.001 Member

    Joined: Jun 9, 2005 Messages: 416 Likes Received: 0


    <!--QuoteBegin-Above Article
    @Feb 26 2006, 01:32 AM
    "But they had the belief, and I quote, that 'Jews have money,' " he said, referring to police interrogations of two people accused of involvement in the kidnapping.
    [post=4344148]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/quote]
     
  10. Smart

    Smart Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Apr 14, 2000 Messages: 17,017 Likes Received: 175

    Dawoo, you whine and whine and whine... but you CAN'T EVEN READ!

    That first sentence is the ONLY time in the entire article where they even REMOTELY hint at the leaders religious faith... in fact they don't say. They merely characterize the neighborhood where he was arrested. For all you know he was caught because he was a christian walking around and sticking out among muslims. BUT NO! You wanna fucking punish ME and tell ME what's wrong with 'the media' because of YOUR ASSUMPTION?

    And the second sentence just proves my point!

    I can't believe you have such a huge chip on your shoulder that you have to try to hijack a story about Jewish victims and turn it into 'Muslims are victims of the media'... You didn't even have to come here in support of the jews, all you had to do was just sit there at home and not reply.

    And you don't even have your facts straight!
    You fail.
     
  11. Dawood

    Dawood Elite Member

    Joined: May 8, 2002 Messages: 4,677 Likes Received: 146
    of course I don't think they were justified...Of course it's wrong. What kind of a maniac do you think I am.?? I'm just saying, theres no reason to depict it as some sort of a religous Jihad when it was just some gangsters trying to extort him
     
  12. Dawood

    Dawood Elite Member

    Joined: May 8, 2002 Messages: 4,677 Likes Received: 146
    Stay with me on this one dawood, its very simple. Timothy McVeigh blew up a federal building because he disliked the federal government and wanted revenge for Waco Texas. Therefore, he is labeled a right wing extremist. When Al Qaeda suicide bombers blew themselves up in a wedding, it WAS because of religious beliefs. Therefore, they label them or any other terrorists who are religiously motivated as MUSLIM terrorists. That is also why the last words are always “Allah akbar.� They view what they are doing as a “jihad�. Do you remember that part of the Qu’ran? Something about a “holy war�? The 6th pillar of Islam I believe? Yeah, no religious implications there. Let’s just ignore why they are doing it...hell let's just ignore it all together. Probably just some jew trickery, like the holocaust(sarcasm, incase you didn't pick up on it)!

    If a Jewish guy was to kill his roommate because he couldn’t find that ultra soft two ply silky TP, I’d be willing to bet he wouldn’t scream “Yahweh is the greatest dude!� The Christians who were stealing body parts weren’t quoting scriptures in the process. Do you get it now? A little bit simpler, it is because terrorism carried out by groups like Al Qaeda, or Abu Sayyaf, is directly caused by their religious beliefs as Muslims (regardless if you disagree as a moderate muslim). Cry me a river, my ISLAMIC MUSLIM internet friend.
    [post=4344215]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]

    nah, man, you don't get it. I'm talking about THIS particualr thread.
    I'm not talking about the ones that actually do things for religious reasons. I'm not denying that there are people (muslims) out there that kill in the name of religion. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about THIS....what happened in paris.
    Let's stay focused
     
  13. Dawood

    Dawood Elite Member

    Joined: May 8, 2002 Messages: 4,677 Likes Received: 146

    Dawoo, you whine and whine and whine... but you CAN'T EVEN READ!

    That first sentence is the ONLY time in the entire article where they even REMOTELY hint at the leaders religious faith... in fact they don't say. They merely characterize the neighborhood where he was arrested. For all you know he was caught because he was a christian walking around and sticking out among muslims. BUT NO! You wanna fucking punish ME and tell ME what's wrong with 'the media' because of YOUR ASSUMPTION?

    And the second sentence just proves my point!

    I can't believe you have such a huge chip on your shoulder that you have to try to hijack a story about Jewish victims and turn it into 'Muslims are victims of the media'... You didn't even have to come here in support of the jews, all you had to do was just sit there at home and not reply.

    And you don't even have your facts straight!
    You fail.
    [post=4344282]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]

    when a crime is committed in a christian neighborhood in America , let's say in the bible belt. Do they say tha the suspects live in a christian neighborhood? of course not. that's why I opened the thread about the christians selling body parts because you could read the article and see how rediculous it looked to see the story referring to them as christians or coming from a christian neighborhood when that had nothing to do with the crime.

    If you can't see my point, then you just like to argue.
    So waht if they only mentioned it in the first sentence. I know crackheads who say theyre christian, so when they get arrested why don't news reporters go out of theyre way to find out or report that these particular crackheads that got arrested for possession were christain, why? because it doesn't matter. If it is a part of the story, then I would say, by all means , mention their religion, but otherwise, it's just a means of attack.
     
  14. Smart

    Smart Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Apr 14, 2000 Messages: 17,017 Likes Received: 175
    You think you can just selective argue points and still come out with some credibility? Your own arguments are flawed and you don't even see it when you've typed them out!

    Look, they don't mention crackhead's religion because crack doesn't care. If that same crackhead leads police on a chase that ends up with his capture in Chinatown then that's what the story says:
    "Crackhead captured in Chinatown"

    THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK ON THE CHINESE!

    You know what, I do like to argue, but I don't like to argue with whiny idiots. You can't back up your facts, logic fails you and all you really do is complain. Near as I can tell, the ONLY reason you came here is to argue. You seem to be changing the world's opinion of Islam through 12oz. Well, I'm fed up with it. You're a retard on the day to day so how could I even begin to trust you with the details of my metaphysical ascension?
     
  15. Weapon X

    Weapon X 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Sep 6, 2002 Messages: 14,905 Likes Received: 202
    This is why I get really suspicious when a hot girl talks to me.
     
Top