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GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS GUNS

Discussion in 'News' started by Sparoism, Dec 24, 2005.

  1. Sparoism

    Sparoism Guest

    I have certainly changed my position on this issue over the years.

    I never would have considered owning a firearm when I lived in the suburbs, and it's not something I look forward to doing, but I'd rather be responsible for my own safety than finding out that Public Enemy was right when they said, "911 is a joke." I have also found that when the cops get involved in an incident, it usually is more of a hassle than a help. I am not anti-police, either, but I do question their preventative effect on crime- even in my wild and crazy youth, I had no ill will towards them. They did their thing, and I did mine. I knew when I was breaking the law, and that if I got caught it had EVERYTHING to do with taking personal responsibility and nothing to do with them as individuals. I just think they aren't much help after the fact.

    This is NOT being started as a political debate about the Second Amendment. By the way, I am a Green Party member, and a Libertarian in spirit. I am more conservative than I was fifteen years sgo, but I am still a liberal when it comes to most social issues. Politically, I believe that less government is better, but I don't advocate anarchy. We aren't ready for that, and may never be.

    So, go ahead and sound off...I realize this is a charged issue for some, and to those folks I simply ask you to be respectful. Get angry, just don't lose your head.
     
  2. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5
    Guns are good.
     
  3. CACashRefund

    CACashRefund 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 14,171 Likes Received: 272
    i cant own a fully automatic akm with a 100round drum magazine...


    this makes me sad.
     
  4. gasfacevictm

    gasfacevictm 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Jul 29, 2003 Messages: 10,415 Likes Received: 707
    gat you down wit da fo pound dunny.
     
  5. ASER1NE

    ASER1NE Veteran Member

    Joined: Oct 15, 2001 Messages: 7,578 Likes Received: 3
    As far as RESPONSIBLE gun ownership, it goes back to ' Guns dont kill people, People kill people".
    I dont think very many persons would have a problem with them if they were all used responsibly which kinda makes this thread pointless. Its the same with responsible bomb ownership, Im sure a number of people including myself have made crude bombs outta fireworks etc. and not blown up buildings or familys of four driving home...

    Its the People who are NOT RESPONSIBLE that cause the problems and following heated debates.
    I really think guns arent the problem but the overall state of mind surrounding them that is the real issue esp. in the USA that NEEDS to be fixed. How you even start to fix it i cant say but i guess tougher gun laws , education and awareness might be a good a start as any.
     
  6. KYU

    KYU Member

    Joined: Feb 20, 2004 Messages: 437 Likes Received: 0
    guns provide illusionary power for an illusionary reality.
     
  7. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5
    So if you get shot by a cop, is the reality of your death just an illusion?

    :haha:
     
  8. John Birch

    John Birch Member

    Joined: Apr 14, 2004 Messages: 747 Likes Received: 0
    the second amendment says "the right to bear arms." It doesn't say anything about guns. Arms refers to any type of weapons from an ax to a sword to a cannon. This was written into our constitution because america at the time was mostly rural and people needed weapons to depend on for food and for defense at a time when we had no real national army or local police forces...this was important beacuse the british tried to confiscate the weaponry of the citizens due to insurrection, but had the unintended effect of depriving people of the ability to hunt and protect themselves... hence the 2nd amendment.


    fast forward to the 21st century. America is mostly urban or suburban. We pay taxes for a police force and national military. There is still nothing wrong with having arms even still. But they should be regulated. I see nothing wrong with that. Why should I? In england you have to register your TV, in most countries you have to register your car. Why should it be any different for what is an essentially dangerous and much abused tool? Having guns, but not registered or regulated, actually negates the purpose the 2nd amendment serves. Its pretty ironic actually. But I have nothing against guns. I would love to go hunting or to the shooting range. Its fun... but there seems to be no point for people to have them otherwise. texas has the most liberal gun laws in america and also the most gun deaths. Mass has the most conservative gun laws and the lowest death by gun rate...If a cop shoots someone in boston, its a scandal for months. If it happens in LA or in Dallas, it may not even make the newspaper or evening news...


    I support the 2nd as much as anyone, but those gun rights/NRA folks are just hypocrites if you ask me, and un-american ones at that too...


    my xmas eve rant, thank you
     
  9. angelofdeath

    angelofdeath Elite Member

    Joined: Sep 15, 2002 Messages: 4,375 Likes Received: 79
    certified gun nut right here.

    i think every able bodied male, 18-45, should be doing our duty, as members of the militia under US code, Title 10, Subtitle A, Part I, Chapter 13, Section 311. we should all own atleast one service arm, in a nato caliber, preferably a US nato round, with a minimum of 500 rounds, and all accouterments to go with it. a side arm, and other necessaries are a plus.
     
  10. CACashRefund

    CACashRefund 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 14,171 Likes Received: 272
    with high capacity magazines?
     
  11. angelofdeath

    angelofdeath Elite Member

    Joined: Sep 15, 2002 Messages: 4,375 Likes Received: 79
    john birch is on some bullshit.
    what part of "infringed" dont you understand? have you ever read the federalist papers? have you ever actually read what the writers of the amendment explained it to mean? simply put, the people were to be armed for self defense and to defend liberty. it was put in place to stop the federal government from imposing tyranny on the people. i can bore you with an ass load of references, but it would probably be pointless.
    the militia is not some collective body of a police force, the militia, still to this day is the people. every able bodied man, 18-45, at the time of the revolution, every able bodied man 18-60. please refer to the department of justice report put out last year that shows the amendment is refering to an individual right, not a police force right. it is well understood from both jefferson and madison, that when referring to "arms" they were referring to military service arms.

    the founders of this country were anti standing army. why? they felt that if the government were under control by the wrong person, the national police force would use force against the people and invade thier liberty. most libertarians hold to this today. militias are for defense of the homeland.

    the 2 clauses of the second amendment dont necessarily flow together.
    what does infringed actually mean you ask? infringed is anything stopping me from walking into a gun store, flopping down a large sum of money, for a full auto m16a4, 1000 rounds of 5.56, and 10 .45 1911's. gun control is unconstitutional.

    to say that defenders of the second amendment are un american hypocrites is very offensive. the constitution does not grant rights, it recognizes natural rights, and creates a government to protect them. they are not doing there job.

    sorry to the creator of this thread for taking the bait on dudes post and turning this into a second amendment political thread.
     
  12. angelofdeath

    angelofdeath Elite Member

    Joined: Sep 15, 2002 Messages: 4,375 Likes Received: 79
    indeed, atleast 10 30 round mags, all loaded, less 1 round, with a tracer the 4th from the end so you know when your gonna have to dump the mag.
     
  13. CACashRefund

    CACashRefund 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 14,171 Likes Received: 272
  14. KING BLING

    KING BLING Guest

    I am a firm beleiver in gun rights...However I think too many people hold onto advocating gun rights religiously while seemingly supporting those who would take away the rights the guns are intended to preserve in the first place. If you support absolute freedom to buy guns you must by default support absolute freedom to of expression (burning flags) and freedom of self determination (abortion rights) to name a few...if you don't, you're basicly a hypocrite with a subscriptions to "Rifleman"...
     
  15. John Birch

    John Birch Member

    Joined: Apr 14, 2004 Messages: 747 Likes Received: 0
    [​IMG]


    AOD, I kinda lost you...federalist papers, madison etc etc. uhh those guys are not like some gods or heroes or anything, just in case you didn't know. They were memebrs of the ruling and business elite and no better than the Gates family or the Bushes...


    stop living in the 18th century...



    "the constitution does not grant rights, it recognizes natural rights, and creates a government to protect them. they are not doing there job. "


    so having one of those things above is a natural right? hmmmm
     
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