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gun thread

Discussion in 'Lifestyle' started by oneleggedupsidedownunder, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

    Joined: Jun 16, 2007 Messages: 14,095 Likes Received: 969
  2. One Man Banned

    One Man Banned Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jan 9, 2013 Messages: 10,907 Likes Received: 1,844
    Youch. Did you happen to look that up after talking about it here? Also curious how you feel now about all those lead sandwiches you ate, and does reading that change your shooting behavior at all now?

    Besides what ends up on me from the actual shooting I've always noticed when I sweep my brass that there's a lot of dust that comes with it, always assumed it was lead. I only shoot indoors when it's pretty cold or maybe raining, and the range seems to have a pretty good ventilation system. I try to keep to certain sets of clothes for shooting and try to wash them separately but it's not like I come home form the range and throw my shit right into the washer either. It's a fun activity but definitely a dirty one, I mean even the cleaning solution for the gun contains kerosene. Of course none of this stopped me from picking up a new gun though, lol.
     
  3. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,771 Likes Received: 309
    Guessing there's a few Class 3's on that wall. Can't see the markings on that lower at the bottom of the first column, but willing to bet it's a pre ban Colt full auto lower from the looks of it.

    If so, that's about $16k just with that one.
     
  4. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,771 Likes Received: 309
  5. One Man Banned

    One Man Banned Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jan 9, 2013 Messages: 10,907 Likes Received: 1,844
    @misteraven I didn't have time to inspect everything there but yes there are some Class 3's there and knowing a little about this guy I would trust that everything there is original.

    I am firing jacketed rounds but have noticed that at least once each trip to the range my 9 will blow back powder in my face which is a mix of various residues. And there's always a mix of dust on the indoor/outdoor range regardless of ventilation, can't clean that all off and can't see most of it unless sweeping brass, emptying garbage, etc. You might be right about NPR, but that doesn't mean the story is fake news. By the way they present it it appears that the DOD expects that their employess will end up with lead in their blood, which I find believeable. In any event, I'm not worried about one trip to the range, I'm thinking more cumulative. And factoring in that lead can cause neurological problems, as can spray paint, I want to be cautious about what I expose myself to.
     
  6. One Man Banned

    One Man Banned Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jan 9, 2013 Messages: 10,907 Likes Received: 1,844
    Will separate post to keep some conversation going in here but wondering if anyone has obtained a permit from another state for recprocity reasons. Know someone before who had gotten one from UT because I think it's honored in over half the states (they had to go there to get it though) and I believe you can get a FL one through the mail that is honored in a few places. Doesnt look lke Trump is going to have time to nationalize the permits.
     
  7. One Man Banned

    One Man Banned Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jan 9, 2013 Messages: 10,907 Likes Received: 1,844
    @misteraven seems to be the resident 2A expert, what did you find in your readings about how the founding fathers looked at mental illness, retardation, etc. Guessing it didn't matter much then. Someone with those issues would likely be called the village idiot and I imagine they wouldn't be given a firearm unless there was an advancing army, in which case they might be used as cannon fodder, or a predatory animal was attacking. Sure there was a rifle or shotgun on many a mantle that could be easily accessed. Don't think the founding fathers could have foreseen some of the shit that happens these days, not sure repeating arms were invented, certainly not automatic weapons, the gattling gun, etc. (not 100 on that). Either way all I can figure is that the need to defend oneself from local or foreign govt outweighed any possible harm that could come from open access to firearms?
     
  8. One Man Banned

    One Man Banned Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jan 9, 2013 Messages: 10,907 Likes Received: 1,844
    Had to go to the doctor today. Not a fan, but dude I saw was pretty cool. Anyhow, the lead question came up and he was telling me how he had come from VT, where there are little if any gun laws. He was saying how he had to struggle to convince a guy who was a frequent shooter to lay off the range a bit because the levels of lead in his blood were too high and needed to come down to a safe level. He also said that the neurological issues are generally related more to infant/child development but that it still wasn't good to have eleveated lead levels in the bloodstream. For whatever it's worth, from the mouth of a professional.
     
  9. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,771 Likes Received: 309
    Well, an important point to note is that the Amendments in our Bill of Rights builds is constructed so that each subsequent right builds off the previous. They're ordered from most important (and broad) to more specific and granular. So even in that era, there was a concept of due process and recourse. As such, taking away any right or property required that action to take place. The issue now, with the "No Fly List" for example is there is no due process. You can be placed on the last at the whim of a government individual without notification or due process, and once you're on it, there is no reasonable recourse to be removed from it. In the case of lets say, a restraining order... You ask a judge to place a restraint on an individuals freedom and have to state your case and cite evidence. If a restraining order is issued, you have the right to contest it before the judge and appeal it before a jury. Make sense?

    Yes, in fact there were already repeating weapons, but obviously not automatic or even semi automatic. That being said, if you take the time to read through the arguments of the time that led to the legislation, as well as the context of what the arguments and legislation were drafted from, its pretty clear what the intent was. In fact, they essentially state it outright. The second amendment was drafted to protect against enemies foreign and domestic, with particular emphasis on curtailing our own government considering we had just finally won our freedom. The people of the era we're very aggressively / jealously looking to protect that new found freedom and at the time, few even wanted a centralized government. It sounds odd in this day and age, but imagine the idea of never having taxes and then suddenly a group comes out of nowhere and starts claiming you owe a cut of your hard work to them. Our charter included a prohibition against a standing army for that specific reason: to ensure the government could never be powerful enough to infringe on the rights of the people, but most especially for people from another place to impose their will on a population that they didn't live and work amongst (and therefore remain directly accountable to). Once we as a people realized we couldn't really grow and prosper without cooperation amongst the states, we decided to setup a charter to organize ourselves into a sort of co-op of sorts. This was the Articles of Confederation, which ultimately failed because it limited government to such an extent that it couldn't function. Once that collapsed, they went back to the drawing board and start drafting a new version which became our Constitution. Understand the mindset, however, in that they were doing all they could to ensure that the government would be restrained and would always be subject to the will of the people, with the exception of the rights specified in our Bill of Rights, which supersedes everything else.

    In any case, if you study it, the exceptions that allow for our army (but not a standing army), clearly state that the people are to be afforded the same access to weaponry as that of the common soldier. The purpose of that was to level the playing field should the army turn against the people, and the way in which its phrased (as well as the context of the argument) was that they had no idea what the future held, but were in fact well aware that there would be technological progress in weapons of war as well as war strategy. In fact, the Revolutionary War was actually won through a paradigm shift inn war strategy to something that would later be looked as as guerrilla warfare. Likewise, they would be well aware of exponential improvement in weapons of war as they had largely lived through an era where it went from sword fighting to black powder based muskets to the start of bullets and rifling. So they may not have envisioned an AR-15, but they were very specific that whatever was issued to the general army, wouldn't be kept from the people. Crazy as it sounds today, you could actually be fined and imprisoned if you didn't maintain a serviceable weapon and a state of readiness (which largely meant that you were good to go at any moment and we're proficient).

    Before any cry babies start throwing out the idea of flame throwers and nuclear missiles, the legislation makes specific mention to the general army. Flame throwers and nuclear missiles are both specialized hardware / munitions and not wielded by the average soldier. Again, the purpose was to be able to give the general army something to think twice about should they ever be commanded to go against the people.

    If you study history, you'll see in essentially every example of genocide that it's occurred to a disarmed or recently disarmed populace. Granted, the founding fathers didn't have Adolf Hitler and his disarmament of the Jews in the 1930's as a reference, but they did have a clear understanding of this idea and the first shot of the Revolutionary War was in response to English soldiers confiscating guns.
     
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  10. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,771 Likes Received: 309
    Not saying he's full of shit, but as mentioned, I know professional shooters. Guys that probably shoot 300 days out of 365. Guys that on the days I've shot with them on will go through 800 - 1000 rounds per day and will often shoot suppressed just because they can (which results in a lot more blow back). Likewise, these are guys that are checked regularly as part of the job (often as part of deployments) and I've never heard a single one say anything about lead poisoning or take any action to limit shooting or how they shoot.

    Guess there can always be exceptions, but if it makes you feel better, just get checked out every 3 months and see if you note any elevated lead in your blood. Again, my guess is that with jacketed rounds, the lead is encased until it hits a target. Suppose if you're super worried you can send your BCG off to a lab for analysis and see if there's much else other than carbon fouling on it. If there's a bunch of lead on that, then yeah I'd imagine some might be getting in your face or on your hands as well.
     
  11. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,771 Likes Received: 309
    I feel you.
     
  12. One Man Banned

    One Man Banned Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jan 9, 2013 Messages: 10,907 Likes Received: 1,844
    Checked regularly as part of the job/deployment... would not take the word of a govt MD for anything. Not like they're going to say hey Seal Team 6 is supposed to take out OBL next week but one of them has elevated lead levels, going to have to hold on the mission for 30 days. Let's also remember that our own govt has experimented on its employees and citizens in the past without knowledge or consent so the word of a govt MD doesn't hold much weight for me and I'd suspect you don't trust them 100% either.

    Did not save sources I looked at earlier but what I saw still described potential dangers from lead even with jacketed rounds. Not going to sweat it too much but going to try to stay on point with basic precautions just like I use a mask/gloves when I paint.
     
  13. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,771 Likes Received: 309
    Yeah, safety precautions are always wise. I usually wear gloves to shoot anyways, more because I'm worried about hot loads and figure the gloves might save a finger or three if some bad shit happened. Likewise, got kind of used to it after running drills where you have to stop and drop prone in a hurry.

    In regards to Govt, yeah... I definitely feel you, but without going into detail, these aren't grunts going to shitty military or VA doctors. More like extreme athlete types that go full throttle all the time. One guy in particular I was talking to about skin cancer so I got a lot of detailed info about his recent medical check and it was a private doctor. Few others I talked to about fitness and diet and definitely got the impression that they scrutinize details in regards to health.

    In any case, just my opinion for whatever its worth. Ultimately everyone has to make up their own mind about it.

    In regards to paint, I remember when MTN started scenting their paint so it smelled like vanilla or whatever. Seemed so crazy that they'd try to make it smell good, when instinct tells me you want to make it smell as bad as possible so people are immediately turned off to breathing fumes.
     
  14. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

    Joined: Jun 16, 2007 Messages: 14,095 Likes Received: 969

    its sentences like these that made NO HOMO a mainstay in this forum. :)



    Also side note, semi -related: The reason that everyone has these fond memories of Krlon Ultra Flat Black is because it was actually scented. The only paint Krylon ever added scent to, because it was fucking unbearable to use if they didn't. @Slyle CMC could add more/clarify more to that tangent.
     
  15. One Man Banned

    One Man Banned Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jan 9, 2013 Messages: 10,907 Likes Received: 1,844
    @misteraven I assumed by your initial description that you were talking about an elite group of guys. I've met some guys like that, can't see someone grounding their mission for an elevated lead level. Still no trust for a govt MD either way. Occurs to me also, kind of funny to be against govt run health care but then you're going to trust the word of a govt MD? Private doctor, more trustworthy. Also @Fist 666 was thinking about the UFB smell the other day, if you could put that into an air freshener or if you sold graf mags that came wrapped in plastic that released that scent when opened... you'd make a lot of $ off the graf crowd. Going back to @misteraven along those lines, if you're still taking suggestions re: a site revamp a good one had occurred to me.
     
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