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Guantanamo hunger strikers

Discussion in 'News' started by robJ, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. robJ

    robJ Member

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 385 Likes Received: 0
    i saw a quick headline on a msnbc clicker, and that was the end of that. Till i came across this link.

    Guantanamo hunger strikers say feeding tubes employed as torture

    AP | October 20 2005

    Prisoners on hunger strike at the U.S. prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, reported troops force-fed them with dirty feeding tubes that have been violently inserted and withdrawn as punishment, said declassified notes released Wednesday by defence lawyers.

    The repeated removal and insertion of the tubes has caused striking prisoners to vomit blood and experience intense pain they have equated with torture, the lawyers reported to a U.S. federal judge after visiting their clients at the base in eastern Cuba.

    Prisoners said they were taunted by troops who said the treatment was intended to persuade them to end the hunger strike that began Aug. 9, the lawyers wrote in affidavits filed as part of a lawsuit in federal court in Washington seeking greater access to prisoners at the high-security jail for terror suspects.

    Lt.-Col. Jeremy Martin, a military spokesman for the Guantanamo detention centre, said all detainees in the hunger strike are closely monitored by medical personnel and mistreatment is not tolerated, though he did not know the specific procedures for handling the feeding tubes.

    "Detainees...are treated humanely," Martin said.

    "Claims to the contrary are wholly inaccurate and blatantly misrepresent the excellent work being done here by honourable military and civilian professionals."

    Guantanamo officials have said this latest hunger strike began with 76 detainees protesting against their confinement. Defence lawyers have cited other reasons as well, including complaints about food and water, alleged abuse by guards and interrogators and their desire to either face trial or be released.

    Yousef al Shehri, 21, of Saudi Arabia, told his lawyers guards removed a nasal feeding tube from one prisoner and reinserted it into another without cleaning it first.

    "These large tubes...were viewed by the detainees as objects of torture," lawyer Julia Tarver, whose firm represents 10 Saudi detainees, said in an affidavit.

    "They were forcibly shoved up the detainees' noses and down into their stomachs."

    At Guantanamo Bay, the U.S. military holds about 500 detainees suspected of terrorist activities. Martin said 25 detainees are on hunger strike, including 22 who are being force-fed.

    The number participating in the strike reached a high of 131 in mid-September when detainees refused meals to commemorate the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks in the United States, Martin said.

    Most detainees participating in the hunger strike are not confined to hospital beds and are permitted to exercise, take showers, send and receive mail, visit the detainee library and practise their religion, he said.

    Defence lawyers who have visited the prison in recent weeks said their clients have lost substantial weight, appeared listless and depressed - and have insisted they will maintain the protest until conditions improve or they are released. A judge has not yet ruled on their request for increased access to the detainees and their medical records.

    Notes of meetings between lawyers and their clients at the detention centr eare classified until they have been reviewed by the military and cleared for release.

    Joshua Colangelo-Ryan, a lawyer for six men from Bahrain, said one of his clients, Isa al Murbati, has lost about 50 pounds as a result of the hunger strike.

    "There's nothing in my mind that he intends to stop the hunger strike," said Colangelo-Ryan, who returned from Guantanamo on Monday.

    Tarver, who returned from the base Oct. 2, said two of her clients were being force-fed and unable to walk.

    "It's quite a drastic situation," she said.

    I'm sure theres more on a google search

    KING BLING Guest

    The best part is this...


    The Bush administration pledged yesterday to veto legislation banning the torture of prisoners by US troops after an overwhelming and almost unprecedented revolt by loyalist congressmen.

    The mutiny was the latest setback for an administration facing an increasingly independent and bloody-minded legislature. But it also marked a key moment in Congress's campaign to curtail the huge powers it has granted the White House since 2001 in its war against terrorism.

    The late-night Senate vote saw the measure forbidding torture passed by 90 to nine, with most Republicans backing the measure. Most senators said the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal and similar allegations at the Guantanamo Bay prison rendered the result a foregone conclusion.

    The administration's extraordinary isolation was underlined when the Senate Republican majority leader, Bill Frist, supported the amendment.

    The man behind the legislation, Republican Senator John McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner in Vietnam, said the move was backed by American soldiers. His amendment would prohibit the "cruel, inhumane or degrading" treatment of prisoners in the custody of America's defence department.

    The vote was one of the largest and best supported congressional revolts during President George W Bush's five years in office and shocked the White House.

    "We have put out a Statement of Administration Policy saying that his advisers would recommend that he vetoes it if it contains such language," White House spokesman Scott McClellan warned yesterday.

    The administration said Congress was attempting to tie its hands in the war against terrorism.

    The veto would be Mr Bush's first use of his most extreme legislative option. But senators pointed out that a presidential veto can be overturned by a two-thirds majority in both houses.

    For now the amendment's fate depends on negotiations between the Senate and the lower chamber, the House of Representatives, which is more loyal to the administration.

    But senators said they were confident that most of the language would survive and that the issue could pose an extremely awkward dilemma for the president.

    The amendment was attached to the $440 billion (£247 billion) defence spending bill and if Mr Bush vetoes the amendment, he would have to veto the entire bill.

    That would leave America's armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan short of cash as early as the middle of next month.
  3. KaBar2

    KaBar2 Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Messages: 2,128 Likes Received: 66
    Well, I guess the Guantanamo prisoners better fucking EAT, like they have been instructed to do. Feeding tubes through the nose and down the esophagus are not the worst alternative, believe me. A long time ago, they fed people through tubes inserted RECTALLY up through the colon into the small intestine if the patient has suffered extreme damage to the face/esophagus/epiglottis and could not swallow.

    Nowadays they usually go with a percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy (PEG) tube, which is inserted surgically, through the mouth and down the esophagus and into the stomach, and pulled through a small surgical wound with the use of an endoscope. The patient then has a permenant feeding tube protruding through the side of the abdominal wall which need not be removed. Of course, in the case of the Guantanamo prisoners, once it was put in, they would have to be kept in four-point restraints to keep them from trying to remove it all the time. That would really suck. I can't see them going to all that trouble unless it was a high-ranking official or someone who had information they REALLY wanted badly.

    If I was being held in Guantanamo, I'd do as I was told. Shit can always get worse, always.

    These guys are probably being placed in four-point restraints to keep them from fucking with the nasogastric tube, then fed liquid nutrition. The tube is probably then removed and after an hour or two (once the enteral nutrition is digested) then the prisoner is released from restraints. This is, more or less, how severely nutritionally deficient anorexic and bulimic patients are fed if they cannot eat normally enough to keep from dying. It's very unpleasant for the patients, but what the fuck. EAT, and nobody will have to force-feed you.

    If the patient is really weak, they might resort to parenteral nutrition (IV drip) to get them strong enough to put in a PEG tube.

    Of course, the easiest thing would just be for them to tell the S-2 what they want to know, then Abdul could go home, and back to herding goats or whatever he was doing in Iraq before he was taken prisoner.

    The problem with the Gitmo prisoners is that they lack imagination. They just have no idea how much more fucked up things can get.

    U.S. Marine Corps brig guards are too humane to allow prisoners to starve themselves to death. They are very patient, and will be glad to force-feed Iraqi prisoners for YEARS to keep them alive so that they can one day return safely to their homes and families. Semper Fi, Abdul. And bon appetite.
  4. robJ

    robJ Member

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 385 Likes Received: 0
    If they want to starve to death, let them.
  5. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5
    Kabar you're an evil fuck.
  6. John Birch

    John Birch Member

    Joined: Apr 14, 2004 Messages: 747 Likes Received: 0
    I think kabar is one of those right-wing wierdos who talks tough about war and militarism, but never been or ever knew anyone who was in the service. the closest he ever got to combat was when he walked by the army recruiting center next to the local quiznos, which he drove 2 blocks to in his SUV...
  7. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    What many people don't realize is that as many as 90% of those prisoners are there purely by circumstance when the streets were swept after an incident.
  8. dumy

    dumy Veteran Member

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 5,056 Likes Received: 0
    ^^yeah Villian it's a horrible situation, one without much structure or accountability and situations and misteps like this just prove that yes, unless someone does something now, things will get much worse before they get better..
  9. Biggus Dickus

    Biggus Dickus Senior Member

    Joined: Jul 21, 2005 Messages: 1,371 Likes Received: 1

    Kabar is a former anarchist liberal trainhopper / hobo turned hitler youth republican late in life. I'm pretty sure he hasn't been in the military.
  10. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5
    Kabar is a fraud. He's just some rightwing douchebag that comes on here with his phony story of how he was this "anarchist/Hippie/hobo/protester" who got straightened out by the Marines. And tries to convert kids into beleiving his fascist dickhead propoganda.
    I can't beleive there are people on here naive enough to fall for it.
    fuck Kabar.
  11. courtorder

    courtorder Senior Member

    Joined: Mar 11, 2005 Messages: 1,371 Likes Received: 0
  12. KaBar2

    KaBar2 Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Messages: 2,128 Likes Received: 66
    LOL. SF1 you are just too much fun on the internet, no shit. "An evil fuck." LOL LOL LOL. Guy you just have no idea how horrible people can be to one another, really. And whenever I try to explain it to you, you go off on a tangent about how I'm a fraud, etc. The part you don't like is that I'm NOT a fraud, and you don't like the truth, apparently.

    I am not going to recite my bona fides any more on here. Nobody else has to, so fuck it, I won't either. I've posted it all before, if anybody cares to know, go fucking look it up.

    They are not going to let any important intelligence assets in Gitmo kill themselves. THEY KNOW INFORMATION THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT INTENDS TO GET OUT OF THEM. And they will either tell the S-2 what they want to know, or life will really begin to suck. Horrible medical ways to feed people so that they cannot starve themselves are just the start.

    Obviously, if the detainee is in four-point restraints with a PEG tube through his abdominal wall, he can't get up to piss or take a dump. So that means he's got to have a rubber Foley catheter up his penis into his bladder, with the balloon inflated with sterile water, attached to a urine collection bag. I've inserted many of them, in ten years as a nurse, in surgical patients, people that are paralyzed, women about to give birth and so on. Properly done, it's uncomfortable, but not unbearable. The thought of it is pretty awful though, and I'll bet the Gitmo prisoners would not care for it one bit.

    The bowel elimination thing is usually handled with a type of adult diaper called "Chuks" or a bedpan, depending on the situation, but if somebody has elimination problems sometimes they wind up with a colonostomy--their large intestine is attached directly to the outside and their shit collects in a plastic bag glued over the stoma (hole) with a sponge-rubber ring. Now, you talk about life being fucked up? Living with a colonostomy has to be just about as bad as it gets, outside of being paralyzed or a burn patient.

    I tell you the truth, before I would submit to any of this shit, I would TELL THEM WHAT THEY WANT TO KNOW.

    Wouldn't you? I sure as fuck would.

    And John Birch--you're wrong, I served a tour in the Marines in an infantry battalion, so nyaah, nyaah, nyaah. Then I served a year in a National Guard tank battalion (tanks are fun to drive and the guns are fun to shoot, but in actual war, they suck because they are so vulnerable.) And then I served about six or seven years in the Texas militia, where we actually trained harder than I did in the Marines, and did stuff that was a shitload more interesting. The regular armed forces is boring as hell, although I did enjoy armorer's school and working in a battalion armory for three years.

    People keep saying things to me on here like "Oooh, you're so old, why are you even on a grafitti web site anyway?" It's because I enjoy baiting all the whiners so much. That, and corresponding with the guys on here who enjoy learning new shit. And for those of you who don't, "Oh well." I guess you'll find some other thread and some other poster that you like better, eventually. In the meantime, 12 oz. is plenty entertaining. Maybe one in twenty-five or thirty 12 oz.ers cares to know what I care to teach. I stick around for them. I try not to flame anybody or resort to ad hominem attacks, I try not to use bad language too often, and I state my opinions, just like everybody else on here. What the heck is so wrong with that? I don't agree with lots of shit on here, but I only bitch about it about every fifteen minutes or so.

    POIESIS Member

    Joined: Aug 10, 2004 Messages: 879 Likes Received: 0
    yea, shit...all they need to do is cooperate. it doesn't matter that the authority is completely illegitimate. just bend over and deal with it, then, like every fairy tale, you'll get that happy ending we told you you'd get. basically.
  14. KaBar2

    KaBar2 Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Messages: 2,128 Likes Received: 66
    Poeisis, you clearly don't understand the situation, guy. Thay WILL TALK. The only question is, when? So they can spend years in a dog cage getting force fed with a tube, or they can tell the CIA what it wants to know. You guys seem very upset by the fact that they are being harshly treated and relentlessly interrogated. Believe me when I tell you---this is the "humane" version of interrogation. All they would have to do is turn the regular line company Marines loose on the prisoners and things would get far, far worse, without any prompting whatsoever from the CIA and military intelligence handlers.

    The only reason they are being treated this well is that the authorities higher up in the chain of command insist that they be handled according to the regulations.

    I was subjected to much worse treatment in Escape and Evasion school than these terrorist pricks are receiving. These guys are receiving no electric shock, no beatings, no deprivation of food or water, no sleep deprivation, no being doused in water 24-7, no "water treatment." No genuine torture of any kind. I'm willing to bet cash money that the brig guards are being as professional and restrained as they can manage under the circumstances.

    Under genuine torture, EVERYBODY TALKS. Everybody. The very fact that these guys are still holding out proves that they are not being tortured.

    I also believe that the facility at Camp X-ray is a "Potemkin village." It's the detention facility that the press is told about and everybody focuses on. Somewhere else in the world (probably Egypt) there are other (or probably several, in different countries), genuine interrogation facilities where the real bad boys are sent, that is run by the CIA or some other intelligence organization. The CIA has a reputation far in excess of any they've earned. The ones I have met were just kind of so-so impressive. I met two guys in 1976 whom I thought were either FBI or CIA, in armorer's school. They had the demeanor of officers, they did not associate with the enlisted troops, and of whom my armorer student buddy the SEAL once said "They're spooks, gotta be." They had the civilian rank of GS-12, which is the same as a Marine Corps captain. They were kind of snotty (like I said, "officers") but not exactly gifted in the weapons repair arena. Their civilian haircuts stood out like a sore thumb in a school full of soldiers, Marines and Navy SEALS.

    There were also two CIA guys involved in surveilling the IWW Fast Food Workers organizing drive in State College, PA in about 1972 or so. They sent a female former Sorbonne student into the organizing group to infiltrate, but she ratted them out to her boyfriend the Wobbly, and the IWW turned the tables on the CIA, and we started watching them watch us. The whole organizing attempt had an air of amateurish futility until the CIA showed up. Word that they were there spread quickly and energized the Wobblies. It was like "Wow! If the CIA thinks this is important enough to infiltrate, we must be on the right track!" The IWW still got defeated in the elections, but they fought the good fight. Everybody was amazed to have their Big Brother fantasies made flesh and blood, and everybody wanted to go help "watch the watchers." The Sorbonne infiltrator, BTW, was a gorgeous chick who wound up having a breakdown and going to a psychicatric hospital.

    What was this about? I forget.

    POIESIS Member

    Joined: Aug 10, 2004 Messages: 879 Likes Received: 0
    well, 'guy', your arguments always hinge on the loosey-goosey notion that everyone in iraq that lifts a finger of opposition, or in detention, MUST be a terrorist, or that the US military, regardless of the tonnage of facts supporting the opposite, is legal and righteous to do whatever the talking heads say is okay. that's killer.
    i don't really see the grand vision there is in torturing, detaining and generally depriving people of basic rights when absolutely squat has been proven/disproven about their status. jose padilla, a US citizen, has now been detained, without any charges for 3 and a half years now. so, your argument would be, just untie the hands and let the torture run free, then we'll see some charges?