1. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum...
    You are currently logged out and viewing our forum as a guest which only allows limited access to our discussions, photos and other forum features. If you are a 12ozProphet Member please login to get the full experience.

    If you are not a 12ozProphet Member, please take a moment to register to gain full access to our website and all of its features. As a 12ozProphet Member you will be able to post comments, start discussions, communicate privately with other members and access members-only content. Registration is fast, simple and free, so join today and be a part of the largest and longest running Graffiti, Art, Style & Culture forum online.

    Please note, if you are a 12ozProphet Member and are locked out of your account, you can recover your account using the 'lost password' link in the login form. If you no longer have access to the email you registered with, please email us at info@12ozprophet.com and we'll help you recover your account. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum (and don't forget to follow @12ozprophet in Instagram)!

Got the time? Proof-read my attacking a Bush-supporter...

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by 26SidedCube, Sep 21, 2004.

  1. 26SidedCube

    26SidedCube 12oz Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    6,590

    Got the time? Proof-read my attacking a Bush-supporter...

    Discussion started by 26SidedCube - Sep 21, 2004

    ...and maybe help me sharpen up areas where I was impatient.

    It's this Southern, Christain, Republican, anti-drug, pro-war chick's 'review' of F/9-11. I'm not an avid Moore-supporter (he's nothing more than a button pusher) and I'm not an avid Democrat (skeptical of anyone with more power than me) but I can't help but heckle long-winded pro-Bush rants. I'm supposed to hang out with this girl later this week but I need to make her feel stupid first.

    Some of you know more about these issues than I do so I figured I'd let ya'll have a go at her with me.

    Nobody's going to have the patience to read all of this so just skim. She's in bold, I'm after the >>'s.





    "watch THIS drive, biatch - my review of fahrenheit 9/11"

    it's a crock of shit and i will stand by this decision until my dying day.

    everyone keeps asking me if i've seen this movie, as if the fact that i hadn't seen it made all my hours of research into michael moore invalid. to which i respond: listen, i don't have to eat shit to know it doesn't taste good. i've done enough fact-checking to know that michael moore is full of crap.

    but i digress. just so i can be on "equal-ground" with f9/11 fans, i wanted to watch it so i could say with authority that it is complete hogwash.

    let me start at the beginning, because you better believe i took notes.

    was it all just a dream? was i really sitting here, wasting my time, watching this crockumentary piece of fiction? was it a dream? or was it real?

    it wasn't a dream... it was real... now, get ready to laugh.

    moore makes a lot of points. a lot of points that, like a dead end, go nowhere.



    >>One man's random scattered points are another man's bright sunny day. Don't buy the coloring book and get mad at the paper when one of the pages is nothing but numbered dots.


    according to moore....

    • bush won florida (and the presidency) because his brother is governor (not because the recount showed that he won by 597 votes!) studies from the new york times, washington post, and CNN all found that in the recount the victory went to bush.



    >>For the record, I've got the movie right here in front of me and it was never said that Bush won because his brother is the governor of Florida. Not once. Oh wait, yes it was. Just kidding, it wasn't.

    >>It is, however, suggested through a series of undisputable tangibles that because Bush has such close connects and was so confident in his taking Florida ("We are going to win Florida. Mark my words. You can write it down.") that is is possible the re-count was engineered (you see, that's what thinking humans do, we take facts presented to us and draw logical conclusions based on consistancy, rule of average and human nature). Remember when we invaded Iraq on the premise of their manufacturing Weapons of Mass Destruction because they refused to let us to go snooping through their underwear drawer? That's what we call an inference, the same type of inference that Moore is hoping people can make after having certain facts presented to them; the difference is his inferrence isn't a baited catch-22.


    according to moore...

    • "ineligible votes" (meaning, votes from convicted felons) were made invalid, because katherine harris, the secretary of state of florida, was bush's campaign manager. like in all of moore's work, he pulls the race conspiracy card– insinuating that bush won because obviously (!) blacks make up the majority of felons, their votes were discounted, and blacks always vote democrat. (!)



    >>Taken from a write-up on the JCPES poll:
    >>"We know from decades of elections data that Blacks generally vote for the most "left" Democratic candidate available. We know that Black America, based on voting patterns, supports candidates to the left of national Democratic Party leadership (their own congressional representatives, for example.) And we know from both election information and every established poll taken in the last 40 years that African Americans endorse in principle government programs associated with the left wing of the Democratic Party"


    i'll just say to the democrats what i've said since 2000- the first time i voted for bush- get over it!


    >>That's cute, but sadly 'get over it' is about as shortsighted and heartfelt as making your national defense policy 'bring 'em on'. These are people's lives that are being directly effected. To you it may not be as big as the latest American Idol, but to those of us who care for the general well-being of the people of our country (and those in vaguely 'brown' regions of the world) it's kind of a big deal. We probably won't be 'getting over it' any time too soon, but we'll let you know if we do.


    what does this voting conundrum have to do with 9/11, you ask? well, moore is clearly saying that if gore had become president, 9/11 never would have happened...


    >>And if John Kerry gets elected the skyscrapers will fall 'en masse' while the US sits on it's hands. Speculation, it's dandy.


    i'm still laughing about this one. moore must think that everyone has forgotten that osama bin laden was handed to clinton on a platter (while gore was veep!) and he did nothing. just blame it on bush! why not? all the cool kids are doing it!


    >>You're absolutely correct. Clinton should have immediately taken those offers from Sudan so they could benefit from having their sanctions lifted. It's not as though they were harboring the 3 terrorists responsible for assassinating the president of Egypt and refused to give them up when asked the first time. Oh what a tangled web we've weaved.


    according to moore...

    • bush spent 42 percent of his presidency "on vacation" - yet moore includes weekends in this count (which he obviously doesn't mention.) not only this, but much of the time bush stayed at camp david, he was visiting with foreign leaders, making it a working "vacation."



    >>No way? He didn't mention weekends?! Sorry, sweetheart but that's hardly an issue. I'd like to think that being the man responsible for the fate of the world sometimes carries over into the weekends and sometimes requires a little bit of homework. Though those 'working vacations' sound might convincing I have to demand some sort of documented proof of things accomplished while conducting business at Camp David. He was there, that's a fact. He was "working", that's moore (get it?!) speculation until proven otherwise.


    also, the "watch this drive" quote is taken completely out of context. bush said this, not in response to al-qaeda terrorists or 9/11, but to the situation in israel with palestinian suicide bombers. making this Moore Lie Number 1,426.


    >>Taken out of context or not, he was presented with a situation where lives were being lost and the best he could do was cough up some cliche' recycled jargon followed by commenting on his golf game. 'Your mom died? I vow swift revenge towards those doers of dastardly deeds. Now check out how I totally destroy this little white ball!' Is he an NBA player talking shit at the tip-off or the ruler of the free world? I wonder if he said the same thing when presented with the memo that OBL was determined to attack the United States? Oh well, FOOOOUUUUUR...


    according to moore...

    • 7 minutes was far too long for the leader of the free world to sit, gather his thoughts, and to devise a plan after he was told america was under attack. if bush stared at the wall for an hour, that would be something to cry a hissy fit over, but 7 minutes? please! give me a break.

    Gwendolyn Tose’-Rigell, the principal of Emma E. Booker Elementary School, praised Bush’s action: “I don’t think anyone could have handled it better. What would it have served if he had jumped out of his chair and ran out of the room?”



    >>Sorry hon, if I got word my family had just been killed in an autowreck I could be recieving heart surgery being conducted by Jimmy Hoffa in the Bermuda Triangle and still wouldn't hesitate to make 'ol Jim feel a little unimportant. Let alone if someone had just flown a plane carrying my relatives into the campground where my reunion was to be held (you see, as President you're kind of like the big, strong, ever-concerned DAD of our nation). It's not as though one of his daughters had just broken her ankle at the mall; time was sort-of an issue.


    according to moore...

    • bin laden family members were allowed to fly out of the country before anyone else (even ricky martin!) was allowed to fly. the truth is this: the air ban was eased on september 13. bin laden family members weren't flown out of the country until after the air ban was eased!

    there has been a stink made that since some passengers were family members (albeit distant ones who had no close relations with OBL himself), they should not have been allowed to depart so hastily. maybe this is true. however, why is bush being blamed? after all, richard clarke, a democrat and a proponent of bush, was the one who gave the order to fly the bin ladens out of the u.s.! if more questioning should have happened, so be it- but why blame bush when clarke said that the order went "no higher" than himself?

    “It didn’t get any higher than me,” Clarke said. “On 9-11, 9-12 and 9-13, many things didn’t get any higher than me. I decided it in consultation with the FBI.”



    >>You'll notice that, in the movie, it's not a matter of Republican VS Democrat as Moore points the finger at both parties for not acting as they should have. Maybe you were too focused on how one-sided it was to notice the 'one side' it was presenting was that of healthy skepticism.


    here's where it get's extremely comical. according to moore...

    • bush not only knew about 9/11 before it happened, but he expected to gain financially from the attacks! now i'm practically rolling on the floor laughing. saudi influence runs long and deep in washington, not just in the republican party. prince "bush" bandar has been involved in washington politics for decades, and even assisted president clinton in his own middle east agenda.



    >>THIS IS HILARIOUS! YOU KNOW WHY!?! BECAUSE ALL OF THOSE OTHER POLITICIANS WHO WERE BEING ADVISED WERE SOLE BREAD-WINNERS IN CORPORATIONS SUCH AS THE CARLYLE GROUP AND HALLIBURTON.. oh wait, no... no they weren't. Were you sleeping through this part or just fishing?


    we're apparently supposed to feel something ~creepy~ when we see james bath's name blacked out. moore thinks that this proves a cover-up by the bush administration- to hide what must (!) be financial ties linking the bushes and the saudis thru bath, who controlled some saudi bank accounts. bath then contributed money to bush. moore makes it seem that the money was given directly from the saudis to bush, when actually bath donated his own money.


    >>No, not 'some saudi bank accounts'. He managed the Bin Laden's money and business investments in Texas AS WELL as invested in G.W.B. when no one else would (you see, Georgie couldn't run an oil corporation but he can run our country). Yes, the money was out of Bath's pocket and into Bush's palm but with what reason? It's not possible that Bath had the foresight to invest in the head of the CIA's son in return for the potential of special treatment resulting from it. To assume that, Bath would almost have to be human and prone to looking out for his own best interests... which could never be the case.


    let's say that i have an account with US bank. let's also say that osama bin laden had a bank account with US bank. does this prove that i have terrorist ties to osama bin laden? absolutely not. but this is what moore insinuates has happened with bush and the saudis.


    >>Let's say you manage Al's billyclubs and have a friend named Jeff Gillooly. Let's also say that Jeff and yourself have a long-standing history of helping each other get laid. Let's say Jeff wants to put the sex on a woman named Tonya Harding. Let's say you benefit from selling more billyclubs if you promise to help Jeff get laid. Does this prove you bashed the shit from fuck out of Nancy Kerrigan's knee? No, but it paints a pretty picture of a class-A, long-term business *investment*.


    for his own propagandist agenda, moore makes light of (and makes a profit off of) the sensitive situation of troops dying. i do NOT appreciate this. troops die for our freedoms so that you and i (and moore) don't have to. this movie proves how blatantly anti-military moore is- he embarasses our troops by portraying them as heartless, redneck killers.


    >>Sorry, but the bulk (meaning most but not all) of soldiers are uneducated, heartless rednecks who want to shoot a gun at a living thing and walk away from it with a badge instead of a prison term. I've known plenty, I know plenty, and I will continue to know more that respond to 'have good day, peace!' with 'no, not peace, war. kill 'em all and let allah sort 'em out'.The people interviewed were excited to be there and they weren't fighting for ANY of our freedoms at home; I think it's safe to say our basic rights had been set into stone well before last March. What does that mean? Well it means they died so that you and I can sit on our fat American asses sucking down White Castle through an IV whilst driving our Range Rovers through the hell known as 'Middle America' without having to pay $2.45 per gallon of gas on our way to re-elect Bush next November.


    i've noticed that moore fans are proponents of hearing "both sides of the story"– yet the only side they want to hear is their own. in f9/11 britney spears is the sole voice of conservative america! she is clearly not a representative sample of the u.s.


    >>Then who is? Ronald Reagan was for a while there but now his family is endorsing the Democratic party because the Bush campaign's religious beliefs impeded on our country's making any progress in the one field of treatment that was helping someone they cared dearly fight his aliments. Maybe God told Bush it was Ronny's time.


    “I don’t know why we are making so much of an act of terror. It is three times more likely that you will be struck by lightening than die from an act of terror.” - michael moore (showing how sensitive he is to the 9/11 tragedy)


    >>How many people have been injured inside the US as a result of an act of terror in the past 15 years? How many have been injured by lightning in the past 15 years inside the US? Sorry, it's safe to say Moore was pointing out the irony in our media's making us feel as though an act of terror is looming over all of our heads in an attempt to sensationalize and get moore (I did it again! get it?!) ratings when the fact of the matter is a much greater threat is ACTUALLY looming over our heads on any given day ending with "Y" in Florida. You see, if certain large telecommunications networks are benefitting greatly (through things suchs as upper-income tax breaks) by having a certain person in power (ala Bush) and that person has a strangle-hold on what is allowed on air as it is, you're going to do your best to make the people feel safe under said person and that person only. Keep people in fear and keep them dormant.. you don't have to be a CIA Human Tactical Manuevers analyst to figure that out.


    "go find some real work." - george w. bush to michael moore. i couldn't have said it better myself.


    >>Lord knows Bush knows a hard day's work. It's not as though he's some spoiled, cokehead alphamale, alcoholic fratboy that couldn't run a business if his life depended on it. It's not as if he's had favors done for him by his daddy from the time he was in a strapping young man in the US Military right up to his name having an influence on his running for presidency.


    the floor is now open for debate from all of my detractors. i dare you.


    >>No, I've had enough typing for now. All that needs to be said is you disbanded about 1/18th of all the things presented in that movie. Even if 3/6ths of them were outright lies the fact still remains: this guy's done a lot more fucking up and off while in office than we normally allow. I wonder if it's because in times like these we'd feel a little awkward and retractional in the eyes of the world removing the leader we initially followed into battle from power? Nah...
     
    26SidedCube - Rank: 12oz Veteran Member - Messages:
    6,590
    - Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
  2. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined:
    May 25, 2000
    Messages:
    32,277

    seeking - Replied Sep 21, 2004

    seeking - Rank: Dirty Dozen Crew - Messages:
    32,277
    - Joined:
    May 25, 2000
  3. 26SidedCube

    26SidedCube 12oz Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    6,590

    26SidedCube - Replied Sep 21, 2004

    I'm definately not in any condition to read anything after that mess up there.. I did bookmark it though.

    Goodlookin' man-g.
     
    26SidedCube - Rank: 12oz Veteran Member - Messages:
    6,590
    - Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
  4. Gunm

    Gunm Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Messages:
    12,427

    Gunm - Replied Sep 21, 2004

    I skimmed over it and it sounded good....now go knock'em dead
     
    Gunm - Rank: Banned - Messages:
    12,427
    - Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
  5. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined:
    May 11, 2001
    Messages:
    13,050

    mental invalid - Replied Sep 21, 2004


    up hill battle right there, but since you already typed it and thought it out, my advice is that next time you may wish to spend your time more wisely such as sitting under a tree in the shade during a hot day...
     
    mental invalid - Rank: Dirty Dozen Crew - Messages:
    13,050
    - Joined:
    May 11, 2001
  6. Kr430n5_666

    Kr430n5_666 Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    19,229

    Kr430n5_666 - Replied Sep 21, 2004

    saying, "i hate," and, "i didn't think the time was right," are sometimes the same, or at least in action.
     
    Kr430n5_666 - Rank: Banned - Messages:
    19,229
    - Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
  7. fermentor666

    fermentor666 12oz Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2003
    Messages:
    8,152

    fermentor666 - Replied Sep 21, 2004

    I think it would work better if you just grabbed her by the arms, shook her real hard and slapped her a couple of times while yelling "Get ahold of yourself, woman! You're hysterical!"
     
    fermentor666 - Rank: 12oz Veteran Member - Messages:
    8,152
    - Joined:
    Sep 27, 2003
  8. Weapon X

    Weapon X 12oz Loyalist

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Messages:
    14,905

    Weapon X - Replied Sep 22, 2004

    Yo, I read it, man. Pretty good!

    You should also tell her about “the base”. I forget what movie my friend was telling me to check out (I think it’s downloadable), but it’s about the way Bush uses certain language to attract “the base”. You know what I’m talking about – “war with evil” and the like.
     
    Weapon X - Rank: 12oz Loyalist - Messages:
    14,905
    - Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
  9. Weapon X

    Weapon X 12oz Loyalist

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Messages:
    14,905

    Weapon X - Replied Sep 22, 2004

    "Airplane!"?
     
    Weapon X - Rank: 12oz Loyalist - Messages:
    14,905
    - Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
  10. trackstand

    trackstand 12oz Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    2,262

    trackstand - Replied Sep 22, 2004

    "Were you sleeping through this part or just fishing?"

    I laughed.
     
    trackstand - Rank: 12oz Senior Member - Messages:
    2,262
    - Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
  11. fermentor666

    fermentor666 12oz Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2003
    Messages:
    8,152

    fermentor666 - Replied Sep 22, 2004

    Yeah, just like that scene.
     
    fermentor666 - Rank: 12oz Veteran Member - Messages:
    8,152
    - Joined:
    Sep 27, 2003
  12. Dick Quickwood

    Dick Quickwood 12oz Loyalist

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2002
    Messages:
    14,783

    Dick Quickwood - Replied Sep 22, 2004

    less sarcasm and inconsequantial stuff, more facts
     
    Dick Quickwood - Rank: 12oz Loyalist - Messages:
    14,783
    - Joined:
    Aug 25, 2002