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Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by --zeSto--, Sep 11, 2002.

  1. --zeSto--

    --zeSto-- Guest

    stolen from www.viceland.com

    (dont bother to reply unless you've actually read it)


    Whether they’re taped to the window of your local pepper spray boutique, stuck on the bumper of a P.T. Cruiser, or “bedazzled” onto the sweater of every substitute teacher from sea to murky sea, you can find them virtually everywhere: American flags. And what goes better with American flags than a big ol’ helping of the phrase, “God Bless America”? The two go hand in hand, like the Midwest and morbidly obese fat people.

    It has become the incessant plea of a nation, a cry for help. Mostly it sounds like a demand: “God Bless America!”

    God Bless America. What… more, you mean? For fuck’s sake, this is already the most blessed citizenry in the history of the world. Unless you include the initially blessed but then severely under-blessed Native American Indians, who, at one point, had all they could ever want — free, clean water, pemmican, and other bullshit like that — but then, for some unknown reason, gave it all up. (Anyway, this is America. Got it, Cochise? Now quit your bitchin’ and enjoy the loose slots.)

    Seems you can’t walk 20 feet without seeing some variation of the flag waving around, all up in a brother’s face, being all flaggy and shit. Reminding people of what it looks like. What is this, May Day? Am I at a military parade in old-timey Russia? Now it goes without saying that the flag never looked better than when it is flapping around on a German-made “Sports Utility Vehicle” (key word: “sports”) driven by some cunt-flavored trophy wife scooting down her driveway to drop the help off somewhere near the bus station, but enough’s enough already. It’s time to start divvying up God’s abundant blessings with some of the less blessed countries we sort of share the planet with. I mean, even the inner-city, crack-addicted preemie, born in a toilet stall and abandoned an hour later in the snack-food aisle at Food 4 Less is automatically luckier than 98% of the rest of the world. So why don’t we help everyone else out by taking a “National Week Off From Praying To God.” I propose one full week of not yelling at God for help. Let’s let the third world have a crack at the big guy. Plus, maybe it’ll divert attention from this annoying notion of relieving their debt.

    And also, consider America for a second. Whenever I hear a politician, priest, CEO, or any other common garden-variety evildoer say “God Bless America,” I think to myself, “Do they think God is blessing us because of, or, in spite of, the fact that this is a nation of atheists, socialists, homos, niggers, kikes, feminists, baby killers, and drug-addicted foreigners AND whores?” If America was a person it would be the coke-addled niece of some mega-millionaire that complained when their eggs didn’t have the right consistency and sent them back to the waiter without ever making eye contact (aka an asshole that you really want to beat the shit out of). It wouldn’t be so bothersome if these willfully ignorant, billboard-wearing parrots showed even the slightest bit of awareness as to exactly how they are able to live the pathetically uninteresting, Billy Joel-loving, TGIFridays Bloomin’ Onion-eating, Ben Affleck-movie-watching lives they lead. It sure ain’t because of the imaginary blessings of Invisible Grandpa (or “God,” as most people refer to him).

    As the great social and political satirist Barry Crimmons once said after receiving the spit-filled vitriol of someone who didn’t agree with his jaundiced view of America and asked Barry, “Oh yeah? If you don’t like America so much, why don’t you move to another country?”:

    “Because, I don’t want to be victimized by its foreign policy.”

    God bless the USA. DAVIDCROSS
  2. Dr. Dazzle

    Dr. Dazzle Veteran Member

    Joined: Nov 19, 2001 Messages: 8,147 Likes Received: 3
    Couldn't agree more.......jesus it's like nothing else ever happens anywhere else in the world......
  3. boogie hands

    boogie hands 12oz Legend

    Joined: Feb 15, 2001 Messages: 16,059 Likes Received: 13
  4. --zeSto--

    --zeSto-- Guest

    like whoa!
  5. yoshy

    yoshy Member

    Joined: Jun 23, 2000 Messages: 738 Likes Received: 0
    bunch of bitchin and compaining...

    what bothers me as much as the people "being all flaggy and shit" are
    the people who complain about other people's actions, making them
    seem trite, and wanting us to believe that the world would be a better
    place if we only just shared their cinical and "poignant" view points...

    it gets us no where
  6. zen

    zen New Jack

    Joined: Sep 20, 2001 Messages: 0 Likes Received: 0
    second! well my country is better than yours and we stole our land too!

    the only slogan we got here is, "pass me another coldie would you mate?" and that suits me fine! im patriotic. i love my town and country. and i love the girls here. and i love my speech and i love the economy, where the rich are rich, but if your poor the government will give you money. fuck me, it hardly even rained this winter, its been nice and sunnny, and im about to leave school and score with hot girls. now, if thats not enough reason to love your country i dont know what is.

    be patriotic, dont over study the meaning, ok so maybe im not looking at the big picture, fuck that, i want to be selfish for once. im fucking pissed off about talking about america and bombing and human rights and the taliban. im tierd of defending the people of afganistan and defending america at the same time. social issues are not worth the time unless you do somthing about it. so do as my country does. just sit down shut the fuck up, and "pass me a coldie"
  7. zen

    zen New Jack

    Joined: Sep 20, 2001 Messages: 0 Likes Received: 0
    by the time i typed it i wasn 2nd any more....
  8. yoshy

    yoshy Member

    Joined: Jun 23, 2000 Messages: 738 Likes Received: 0
    has anyone been reading thomas friedman's article's on 9/11 in the

    i enjoyed them at first, but the last two i havent really felt great about...

    if you feel like it, read his most recent article and tell me what you


    Noah and 9/11

    Over the past year several friends have remarked to me how much they still feel a pit in their stomachs from 9/11. One even said she felt as if this was the beginning of the end of the world. And no wonder. Those suicide hijackings were such an evil act that they shattered your faith in human beings and in the wall of civilization that was supposed to constrain the worst in human behavior. There is now a big jagged hole in that wall.

    What to do? For guidance, I turned to one of my mentors, Rabbi Tzvi Marx, who teaches in the Netherlands. He offered me a biblical analogy. "To some extent," said Tzvi, "we feel after 9/11 like we have experienced the flood of Noah — as if a flood has inundated our civilization and we are the survivors. What do we do the morning after?"

    The story of Noah has a lot to offer. "What was the first thing Noah did when the flood waters receded and he got off the ark?" asked Tzvi. "He planted a vine, made wine and got drunk." Noah's first response to the flood's devastation of humanity, and the challenge he now faced, was to numb himself to the world.

    "But what was God's reaction to the flood?" asked Tzvi. "Just the opposite. God's reaction was to offer Noah a more detailed set of rules for mankind to live by — rules which we now call the Noahite laws. His first rule was that life is precious, so man should not murder man." (These Noahite laws were later expanded to include prohibitions against idolatry, adultery, blasphemy and theft.)

    It's interesting — you would have thought that after wiping out humanity with a devastating flood, God's first post-flood act wouldn't have been to teach that all life is precious. But it was. Said Tzvi: "It is as though God said, `Now I understand what I'm up against with these humans. I need to set for them some very clear boundaries of behavior, with some very clear values and norms, that they can internalize.' "

    And that is where the analogy with today begins. After the deluge of 9/11 we have two choices: We can numb ourselves to the world, and plug our ears, or we can try to repair that jagged hole in the wall of civilization by insisting, more firmly and loudly than ever, on rules and norms — both for ourselves and for others.

    "God, after the flood, refused to let Noah and his offspring indulge themselves in escapism," said Tzvi, "but he also refused to give them license to live without moral boundaries, just because humankind up to that point had failed."

    The same applies to us. Yes, we must kill the murderers of 9/11, but without becoming murderers and without simply indulging ourselves. We must defend ourselves — without throwing out civil liberties at home, without barring every Muslim student from this country, without forgetting what a huge shadow a powerful America casts over the world and how it can leave people feeling powerless, and without telling the world we're going to do whatever we want because there has been a flood and now all bets are off.

    Because imposing norms and rules on ourselves gives us the credibility to demand them from others. It gives us the credibility to demand the rule of law, religious tolerance, consensual government, self-criticism, pluralism, women's rights and respect for the notion that my grievance, however deep, does not entitle me to do anything to anyone anywhere.

    It gives us the credibility to say to the Muslim world: Where have you been since 9/11? Where are your voices of reason? You humbly open all your prayers in the name of a God of mercy and compassion. But when members of your faith, acting in the name of Islam, murdered Americans or committed suicide against "infidels," your press extolled them as martyrs and your spiritual leaders were largely silent. Other than a few ritual condemnations, they offered no outcry in their mosques; they drew no new moral red lines in their schools. That's a problem, because if there isn't a struggle within Islam — over norms and values — there is going to be a struggle between Islam and us.

    In short, numbing ourselves to the post-9/11 realities will not work. Military operations, while necessary, are not sufficient. Building higher walls may feel comforting, but in today's interconnected world they're an illusion. Our only hope is that people will be restrained by internal walls — norms and values. Visibly imposing them on ourselves, and loudly demanding them from others, is the only viable survival strategy for our shrinking planet.

    Otherwise, start building an ark.

  9. --zeSto--

    --zeSto-- Guest

    I disagree that there was no public out cry from the Arab people and their leaders.
    Most of the average people were probably shitting themselves with fear of retaliaion.

    from www.arabnews.com

    The evil acts which produced those horrifying images are also now a part of history. Those acts must not be forgotten. They must be seen as a tragic signal to a world forced into confronting what it had previously managed to avoid. The signal tells us several things; the first is that the world, like it or not, must unite against terrorism. With one voice, the world must say “No to terrorism” and it must do what is necessary to guarantee there is no repetition of those hideous images.

    Another message from the signal is that there is no grievance, no injustice and no oppression which can justify the murder of so many innocent people. No religion condones such meaningless slaughter and no individual worthy of being called “humane” can possibly agree to so barbarous a method of attracting attention. We see a total absence of religious feeling or morality in the acts.

    now lets get back to taunting soccer-moms with bedazzled keds.
  10. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 11, 2001 Messages: 13,050 Likes Received: 8
    i got a key chain, a mini flag and magnet flag at my desk today....i mean give me a fucking break....

    now dont get me wrong, i love this fucking country, and ive got lots to be proud and happy about, but sometimes its just to much.....i dunno, im sure it was done in good nature...now i feel bad.....blah
  11. FACE WON

    FACE WON Guest

  12. sneak

    sneak Guest

    spot on
  13. Grandola

    Grandola Senior Member

    Joined: Jul 16, 2002 Messages: 1,773 Likes Received: 0
    only flag i have is a mexican flag and it's hanging in my room.
  14. optimodub

    optimodub Junior Member

    Joined: Mar 5, 2002 Messages: 249 Likes Received: 0
    “...If you don’t like America so much, why don’t you move to another country?”:

    “Because, I don’t want to be victimized by its foreign policy.”

    fucking spot on too...i admire david cross's guts for writing that...i'm so fucking glad i'm not american and don't live in america, not a good time for any kind of dissent in the slightest, i don't think i could handle it

    only flags i like are black flags

    'patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel'
  15. Poop Man Bob

    Poop Man Bob Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Nov 16, 2000 Messages: 10,259 Likes Received: 18
    Before I finish reading the article, I had to quote that ... made me ha ha.