george Bush doesn't care about Democracy

random hamas article about said topic

oh the hypocricy (sp?)

so we promote democracy, but only if the results are in our interests? hmmm...just think south america too...

BUSH:

"We don't negotiate with terrorists"

"Well, Ok, if the terrorists tell us they won't destroy Isreal, I guess we will"

:lol: That just about sums it up.

I listened to George's press conferance this morning and I was actually impressed that he was articulte on some issues more than I heard him be.

But it was also sickening to see the contrast between him speaking fluidly and with some degree of articulation and than him responding to questions, especially regarding the wire tap scandal, in which he spoke in like mush mouth. "You gotta see it, I mean you gotta see it in the lense of in the terrorist..." <something like that>

Originally posted by John Birch@Jan 26 2006, 09:09 PM

oh the hypocricy (sp?)

 

 

so we promote democracy, but only if the results are in our interests? hmmm...just think south america too...

Quoted post

Wait, we are supposed to be happy that Palestine democratically elected an Islamic militant group? Nobody is questioning their legitimacy as an elected group, or suggesting that democracy wasn't served. That doesn't make it good news though.

The problem with Hamas is that their mission statment is "total anhaliation of Israel." Do you not see a problem with this? There will be no more negotiations (you can't give in to any demands of an organization who's goal is to destroy you) and this will lead to war... Any land the palestinians have tried to get the Israelis to concede peacefully will simply not be given. This is really bad for that region.

yeah, it's not boding well for the future.

of course it naturally pisses in the face of the american gov't, what with their love of democracy and israel.

About 1.073 million Palestinians voted, a turnout of 77 percent of registered voters, said Hana Naser of the Central Election Commission.

Though there has been no denunciation of their long-held views on Israel, Hamas members said they were not as concerned with the peace process as they were with improving the lives of Palestinians and the creation of a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital.

Ismail Haniya, Hamas' leader in Gaza, told media outlets that Hamas believes it can operate a government without disarming.

Originally posted by bobthemothafuckinbuilder@Jan 27 2006, 02:28 PM

The problem with Hamas is that their mission statment is "total anhaliation of Israel."

Quoted post

A more accurate translation would be that Hamas believes that a "Palestinian state should contain all of British mandate Palestine, the pre 1947 boundaries of Palestine", which the British decided to give to the over 1 million European and American Zionists (not from Palestine) who migrated there after WWII between the years of 1948 and 1957.

This would be on top of what is now called Israel(as of the last 58 years) but what was called Palestine going back to the bible.(Israel is the name of the land that god gives to the Jewish people when he returns and the pre bible term Israel refers to people not to land)

The mistranslation by American and western media is obviously there to alienate Hamas in the western world. Not to say that Hamas is not a armed resistance organization, but they have every right to arms and defense as Israel does to say that they can have arms and nuclear weapons(which they do based of the American design) and deny the Palestinians the right for an army is hypocritical. It basically is eluding that people of a more European history, like the majority of people of Israel, are more civilized than the brown middle eastern savages who don't deserve a military because they need these colonial European groups to dominate them.

That's bullshit. The Palestinians are the indigenous people to what is now Israel and they have every right to resist Israel and want the land that they were violently forced out of back.

I understand that in the pre WWII era jewish people made up 10% of the population of coloinial Palestine but the majority of the Israeli people who imigrated have no historical conection to the land other than religion. They are made up mostly of american and eroupean jews.

That was way to long...I am just ranting.

Originally posted by El Mamerro@Jan 27 2006, 07:49 AM

Wait, we are supposed to be happy that Palestine democratically elected an Islamic militant group? Nobody is questioning their legitimacy as an elected group, or suggesting that democracy wasn't served. That doesn't make it good news though.

Quoted post

Heh, in today's 'local news poll' this was the question:

Is democracy desirable if it leads to the election of militant groups like Hamas?

63% Yes

37% No

What? Really? 37% of people are no longer convinced that democracy is the answer? What?

Also, I love this quote:

"Don't be afraid," Ismail Haniyeh, a Hamas leader, told the BBC.

That's a helluva thing! It's like what Dracula or Ming the Merciless would say...

Heh, in today's 'local news poll' this was the question:

Is democracy desirable if it leads to the election of militant groups like Hamas?

63% Yes

37% No

What? Really? 37% of people are no longer convinced that democracy is the answer? What?

LOL

short and sweet. screw global democracy. screw MINDLESS backing of israel. screw this hamas group.

I think that the problem everyone has with Hamas running the country is not the "mistranslation" of their propaganda, or their right to defend themselves. Its the militant wing of Hamas that "defends itself" by sending young brainwashed kids to blow themselves up at a local cafe or bus. The murdering innocent people deal doesn't sit well with alot of people for whatever reason.....not like Israel doesn't do the same thing but atleast they do it in retaliation and have specific targets in mind.

Anyways, now its not just a terrorist organization hiding in a country, but a terrorist organization running a country. So when they break the cease fire it will be an act of war.

Originally posted by 383+Jan 27 2006, 09:56 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (383 - Jan 27 2006, 09:56 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-bobthemothafuckinbuilder@Jan 27 2006, 02:28 PM

The problem with Hamas is that their mission statment is "total anhaliation of Israel."

Quoted post

A more accurate translation would be that Hamas believes that a "Palestinian state should contain all of British mandate Palestine, the pre 1947 boundaries of Palestine", which the British decided to give to the over 1 million European and American Zionists (not from Palestine) who migrated there after WWII between the years of 1948 and 1957.

This would be on top of what is now called Israel(as of the last 58 years) but what was called Palestine going back to the bible.(Israel is the name of the land that god gives to the Jewish people when he returns and the pre bible term Israel refers to people not to land)

The mistranslation by American and western media is obviously there to alienate Hamas in the western world. Not to say that Hamas is not a armed resistance organization, but they have every right to arms and defense as Israel does to say that they can have arms and nuclear weapons(which they do based of the American design) and deny the Palestinians the right for an army is hypocritical. It basically is eluding that people of a more European history, like the majority of people of Israel, are more civilized than the brown middle eastern savages who don't deserve a military because they need these colonial European groups to dominate them.

That's bullshit. The Palestinians are the indigenous people to what is now Israel and they have every right to resist Israel and want the land that they were violently forced out of back.

I understand that in the pre WWII era jewish people made up 10% of the population of coloinial Palestine but the majority of the Israeli people who imigrated have no historical conection to the land other than religion. They are made up mostly of american and eroupean jews.

That was way to long...I am just ranting.

[/b]

This is true, somehow people always overlook the fact that the palestinians have a right to the land they were Christopher Columbus'ed out of. Since the media has done a great job at making palestinians look unworthy and uncivilized and making Jews look like "normal people (just like us Americans)" I guess it becomes easier to bully someone who you perceive as deserving it. (and these perceptions are mostly based on stereotypes.)

It still comes down to money, and demonocracy is a good system to protect the investment of the one who is active in it. I bet if Hamas had a lot of money, with something to bring to the table , they'd be all coochie crunch with George Bush and his goon squad, especially if the tables were turned and "so called" Isreal was broke, It wouldn't matter what Hamas said about the dirty Jews.

it's easy to look the other way when someone has a little bit of financial pull, that's why the Jews have been so successful in plundering the palestinians all these years with not so much as a reprimand. And any time anybody speaks up against the injustice of the Jews, they got a term for that. Anti-Semitism.

yeah in terms of anti-semetism... Semites are an ethnic group that includes palestinian and arab peoples. Russian jews are NOT semites, their Slavs...

So generally speaking to suport European jews and discriminate and expel isreali muslims is anti-semeticism... Plus the ironic thing, the palestinians, whether they are christian, muslim or jewish are all descended from the same group of people who lived there thousands of years ago...The religions change, due to politics etc... but its still the same people...

so basically a bunch of white euros want to kick out the real jewish people whose ancestors converted or were forced to convert to islam a thousand years ago or more...

the irony

(and yes, I think genetic testing has shown that palestinian jews, muslims and christians all all genetically the same ethnic group...)

Yeah, I talked to a palestianian Christian yesterday about this, He was actually praising bin laden for standing up to Bush (the real terrorist) is what he called him.

I was surprised to hear that coming from a christian. Praise of Bin laden? Whoa, even muslims hate him these days.

if I wwweere god, first the christians then muslims would go into the oven (the jews would be to test the ovens)

that way only catholics would rule the earth!!!!

i really hope youre joking and you know catholics are christians

no I am not joking, nonetheles I have the feeling you wouldn't get insightful social humor if Lenny Bruce and Bill Hicks rose from the grave and you ran into them in a dark alley...oh well

Holy shit, a Bill Hicks reference...

Originally posted by John Birch@Jan 29 2006, 07:00 AM

no I am not joking, nonetheles I have the feeling you wouldn't get insightful social humor if Lenny Bruce and Bill Hicks rose from the grave and you ran into them in a dark alley...oh well

Quoted post

you dropped some names you must be ultra intelligent

johnnie birch has to be one of the most insightful political commentators we have today whether on 12oz or in america....

wiz-ord////

John Birch is my homie.

Bill Hicks is my hero.

As for the Hamas victory, I'll stick to the "I've always thought democracy kinda sucked, at least now it is more interesting" line of reasoning.

Yea you guys are right. We should give back the U.S. land to it's rightfull owners-the indians. We should also give back 60% of the world to the Greeks and Romans because at a point and time it was their land. Israel (backed by the U.S.) fought a war for the land and they won it. Palestine therfore has no right to the land. War is what shapes this world, accept it.

Hitler was also democraticaly elected.

Dont forget theyre only 'terrorists' because the Bush admin. labelled them such. Hamas didnt appear overnight , theyve been around a long time and are not much more than Political/Religious Rebels in their own country...

well, yeah, but they're still terrorists... and the Bush admin. didn't proclaim them terrorists, they were terrorists WAY before Bush came around.

I mean, I support the IRA but they're still terrorists... You can be just some bum fuck that's mad at the govt. and still be a terrorist. McVeigh proved that, I mean, he was just a political/religious rebel right? Or the abortion clinic bombers... just political/religious rebels...

If you use 'terror' as a weapon then you're a terrorist.

In regards to shifting allegiances, Fatah was considered heroic for the longest time. They were only recently labelled terrorists by the Bush administration. I really don't think it's a coincidence that almost simultaneously with the election of Bush in '00 and Ariel Sharon soon afterwards the intifadah in the Palestinian territories began. Hard headed right wing extremists always like to butt heads with each other. Sure they may form temporary allegiances like Germany and Japan and Italy in WWII but eventually it all breaks down and they all squabble with each other because they are ALL ultranationalistic and or ultrareligious.

bush can suck a dick

^^^^

no question

I hate to break up the little dog and pony show that we have going on here, but can we think pragmatically for a second?

1) Israel has tanks, guns and nuclear weapons. Palestine does not.

2) Palestian is now run by a terrorist group that has a no compromise policy.

3) Eventually Israel and Palestine will confront one another, because Hamas will not compromise.

4) See #1.

I hope they enjoy Syria...