Cracked Ass Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 This could be called "getting jaded", and I don't want to point any fingers because I'm guilty of all the things I'm about to mention. But... Lately I'm sick of looking at freight pieces, unless there's something really outstanding about them. Not so much tired of styles: I'm tired of the same old placement of freight pieces, particularly on boxcars. Always in the same spot, down low where you can reach, just to the right of the numbers, and second choice is the bar side, and maybe somebody squeezes onto the door. Same old bottom locked blobs of color in the same place. Maybe once in a while somebody goes e2e by themselves, but they go only for size and it's sloppy or uninspired. I think freights need a new spark, a greater sense of composition, how the piece relates to the car itself. If you can sit there and burn in the usual spot like Chisme or Hybrid or 21rak, I'm not complaining, but overall heads aren't paying much attention to how their piece looks on a particular car. I keep looking at these extended height boxes, some of them nice and flat, and people are killing each other fighting for the same few square feet along the bottom, and I look up above the numbers and there's this huge blank space, ripe for exploitation. Of course placement is a function of what everybody can reach, and a lot of spots don't give you much choice, you have to be in and out. But I think people with chill spots should be making better use of freight space. We need more wholecars, more t2bs, e2es, "Hot Wheels" type ideas, productions, diagonal pieces, whatever. If you have a chill spot, and aren't wack, get inspired this year and experiment with positioning, or just do some wholecars. I hate to resurrect the euro cleans vs. US freights zombie, but in one way some of the Euro haters have a point: they're doing wholecars in the most dangerous, high security spots, and US freight heads with chill spots are putting out these small, unambitious mini-panels. Like I said, I'm guilty, I have all kinds of crap running. And it's better to get a standard-sized piece in the usual spot than see a blank car. But with style arguments going nowhere, I think the next move on freights is about size, composition, and quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheesecurd Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 so what if you don't have some chill spot? what if your yard is almost as scary as some euro clean train yard? what if you just fucking hate doing a busted ass throw up for a whole car? if I lived over there you sure as fuck wouldn't catch me doing some whole train that looked like a silver dipped turd. what if you don't like cheating with montana paint? if you're so jaded, do a wall. if you feel like making it fun again...burn over crappy stamps and tags. this is my new mission. its' about competition. I don't hit the clean boxes anymore if I can help it. I try to rock hard enough so that I dont' leave even a peice of the backround left up. and then you can sleep better knowing that you improved and beautified something. plus I'll feel better cause I won't have so much crap out there if people would do the same. I'm defenitly feeling you on how peice placement is slightly uninspired, but how many floaters can take 5 do? (yeah I've seen at least one though.) and if you're bent on squeezing in your peice in, say my favorite part of the box, the far right past the black box and over the ladder...style becomes an issue cause you don't always have proper space to rock strong letters. to each their own I guess... you should just be glad that CAP one didn't get into killing fr8's...then everyone would be doing 2 foot high black and whites like "takt" or "maest." play on players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogie hands Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 Originally posted by cheesecurd if I lived over there you sure as fuck wouldn't catch me doing some whole train that looked like a silver dipped turd. thats fucking comedy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike bibby Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 pretty soon all fr8s are going to look like the rockhoppers out of santacruz, just crap over crap on every train, that will be the day i quit fr8s.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAITOMANOCU Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 i used to have a chill spot which led to me being inspired...but things aint what they used to be i had dreams of someday doing a wholecar or at least an e2e, but i don't think that'll ever be realized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sodoma Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Just do passenger trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skunkjuice Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 i'm into it.. what immediately comes to mind is the ges in the top left corner of the train. and how the fuck is using montana cheating? i don't get it.. maybe its because you don't have to do 2 or 3 coats with crap paint. could be because the colour selection is better though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAITOMANOCU Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 i'm also thinking of that geser CHTT...caught that a while ago and it was nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porque Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 ...i understand cracked's complaint but i think the issue has less to do with the lack of style originality and more to do with the lack of numbers inspiration...it's just too damn hard to get your numbers up enough to make a huge difference, there's probably at least a hundred people out there doing 500 freights a year...and they're all just rockin panels...i'm all for gettin creative and i'm interested to see some new spark to the freights...but i also have to say that i love the way a piece sits on a panel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostvandal Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 i went alone tonight and i tried to do what you said. I did my piece at the right end (I put tape on the #) and on the ladder. and it came out suprisingly pretty clean. I just hope it wont be gone tomorow as i go get my flicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorc bcj Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 you should just be glad that CAP one didn't get into killing fr8's...then everyone would be doing 2 foot high black and whites like "takt" or "maest." play on players. [/b] for the record, maest rocks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 the rails need more color and larger pieces. oh well, im doing my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cheesecurd Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 for the record, I'm not hating, not even when a dude that writes sorc went over a half assed e2e done for my birthday. graffiti on trains is awesome. http://www.geocities.com/meatdrapetrains3/sorc1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Average White Railfan Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 personally, im a panel type. I hear and understand the argument. but even when I find chill spots, where I would have the time to pull off a t2b, or an upside piece I wouldn’t. for the simple fact I like panels. second of all, I hate floaters on trains. so if I ever did anything on the upside of a freight, it would have to be a t2b, as to keep my open bottom philosophy. which brings me to my next point. I’m not trying to beat the fossil of a horse, but I think its unfair to compare European writers ability to pull off whole cars with American freight writers whole-cars. I’ve never been to Europe, but knowing a little bit about public transportation, I’m sure the majority of writers painting whole-cars over there are taking advantage of catwalks in tunnels and yards. I’ve never seen a catwalk in a freight yard. some spots may have a dock or if you get lucky you can catch a box car or whatever next to a gondola or inter-modal car. but the majority of American freight whole cars are done by diehard motherfuckers who have the stamina, to tote big ass ladders, and ample paint out to the lay-up, and in all honesty, that just isn’t me, I just don’t have it in me to spend 6 hours WORKING on one piece. And if that makes me a lazy no good son of a bitch, than so be it. I also hate painting on ladders, even when its a full on legal wall, so there is no way in hell I’m carrying one out to a train yard. To top it all off, when you got guys like Zore and king 157 running around pulling off t2b, e2es’, on holyrollers, with style, not just huge roll paint block busters, it doesn’t do much for your self-esteem. To the argument of boredom with styles however, I think cats like Lewis (with the walk the plank piece) or Mber with the chick magnet, and the “e” is outta here piece, or nsf (with the hot wheels car) or even that guy gore-b with those scenic pieces are definitely providing that variety, for me at least. I like fun looking graffiti, with a gimmick. I can say I would certainly like to see more. But I’m satistfied just seeing graffiti on trains, from the cars killed with tags and hollows, to the run of the mill styles, to whole cars. Waste of space. Hmmmmm. Good point, I never looked at it like that since there are still so many untouched cars, but I see the point. What I think is an even bigger waste of space is how biased a lot freight writers are when it comes to car selection. I know writers in cities with endless fields of grainers, gondolas, tanks etc, but nobody paints them…everybody wants the boxcars. So I stand there benching and a grainer, or a gray belly unit rolls by with nothing on it, maybe a tag and a shore piece at best. Meanwhile people are fighting over boxcar space. I’ve made it a point NOT to touch any boxcars this year. For me its high time to get running on all the shit that most writers turn their nose up at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorc bcj Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by cheesecurd for the record, I'm not hating, not even when a dude that writes sorc went over a half assed e2e done for my birthday. graffiti on trains is awesome. http://www.geocities.com/meatdrapetrains3/sorc1.jpg e-mail me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porque Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 ...pope...i feel you on the boring lines of hoppers and grainers...but come on you just said you're a panel guy and now you're saying you're not gonna touch a boxcar this year...bs...hell i'll do a grey belly now and then, but if i do it's cause i'm going out with a few heads and we're gonna e2e that bitch...but if i'm out by myself you better believe i'm lookin for boxcars...so go ahead and leave em alone cause that's more for me... ...ps...FUCK FLOATERS!!!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracked Ass Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by The Pope I’m not trying to beat the fossil of a horse, but I think its unfair to compare European writers ability to pull off whole cars with American freight writers whole-cars. Whoa! You are refuting an argument I never made. I did not compare freight wholecars to passenger wholecars, I compared passenger wholecars to anemic, undersized freight panels, those little stamps that are failing to excite me these days. (And again, I've done a million of em myself - I'm not calling people out, just trying to get some discussion.) If you want to compare freight wholecars with passenger wholecars, then freights are definitely more work unless the passenger is a double-decker. Freight wholecars are damned big - on average, 50 feet long by 14 feet high, and autoracks are bigger. They are a lot of fucking work and I have a lot of respect for people who have done them, especially when they use a million colors and come off stylewise. Many passenger trains, especially at a platform, you don't even need to stand on a crate to go t2b, and a wholecar in that case is maybe the equal of a crate-high freight e2e - security issues aside. In fact even if you factor in the security - a well-guarded transit yard vs. a chill freight layup - a freight wholecar is still a tough project. Overall, I'm just trying to provoke people into thinking outside the box a little on freights. A lot of the most memorable NYC subway cars were the big projects: Hand of Doom, Dondi, Duster/Lizzie, etc. We could use some of that size and creativity on freights, IF you have a spot chill enough. I understand if you don't like heights - go for a nice e2e instead. I did one last week at a spot where any ladder work would have been suicide, and it came out nice and felt a lot better than churning out another ordinary panel. I'm not hating at all here, just feeling a little "ehh" about some of the unambitious-looking pieces in the usual spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frate_Raper Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 I think e 2 e's are being slept on in the last few years.When I first came out they were rad as fuck and top to bottoms weren't insight and a whole car was your crown. It's almost the normal thing to do a whole car, alot of people do them and they suck.I did one last year it sucked but I'll make up for it and I WILL MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T RAIN. My point more end to ends they look so cool on a cn flat or autorack....going over shit on trains is cool too.....lets get up and have fun and respect the rails! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BLACK Y Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 i really dig your ideas,,,i have mention that to some guys that are into fr8s way more than i am a while ago but they weren't catching my drift,,,,,,,i think if you can pull it off in a safe spot go nuts,,some of the most famous subway cars were done with an out side the box mentality ,,,,,doing panels is dope and i can respect wanting alot of pieces under your belt but the huge in your face work gets just as much respect if not more,a few examples,,LEE , SEEN ,DONDI, MIN and nace,,,,,i wasnt big on his style but i can front on the whole cars and end to ends,classic shit,,,,,,,oh and i think some one like cap will appear in the fr8 scene soon enough,history always repeats it self,,,,,,,,,im glad im not alone in this,,,,maybe thats why im not realy into fr8s,alot of restrictions are set on writers by them selfs ,,,,,,which i can respect no one wants to burn a spot and risk getting bagged ,but some time you have to be like fuck it,after all we are writers first . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razeagainst Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Cracked Ass, you sound like a fucking pro when it comes to freights... any chance i could find out what you write? If you think giving that info out is a bad idea, then don't worry about it... I'm curious though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Average White Railfan Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Originally posted by porque ...pope...i feel you on the boring lines of hoppers and grainers...but come on you just said you're a panel guy and now you're saying you're not gonna touch a boxcar this year...bs...hell i'll do a grey belly now and then, but if i do it's cause i'm going out with a few heads and we're gonna e2e that bitch...but if i'm out by myself you better believe i'm lookin for boxcars... so go ahead and leave em alone cause that's more for me... ...ps...FUCK FLOATERS!!!... when i said i am making it a point not to touch boxcars this year i meant that like im not going out of my way to touch them. I have already got a few, and thats only because I wasn't driving. but in any event ill rock a pannel on a grey belly or grainer just as fast as if it was a box car. but i am certianly feeling your point about e2es' on hoppers. if there are two writers together id rather see two pannels on a boxcar than 8fools squeezed in together on one boxcar (not taking into account circumstances that might force people to that). and if e2es are in order, than hoppers are the best car for the job. grey belly or grainer. over the years ive grown less and less fond of e2es on boxcars, even the ones ive been a part of. the boxcar door just throws the whole thing off. even though ive seen people rock the door, it still distorts the flow of all the pieces. the one man e2e works well on the boxcar, or even 2 panels with a crew or connecting cloud on the door. all that shit is gravy. but the other problem that comes with boxcars now a days is a lot of them are now occupied. so it becomes a matter of either taking shit out, sparing fools which cuts into my fun. a decision i hate having to make. im never doing another door again though, unless its a thro up. dont get me wrong i like boxcars, but i just see too many, other cars, not touched, so im gonna do my little bit to spread the love. Originally posted by Cracked Ass I'm just trying to provoke people into thinking outside the box a little on freights. A lot of the most memorable NYC subway cars were the big projects: Hand of Doom, Dondi, Duster/Lizzie, etc. We could use some of that size and creativity on freights, IF you have a spot chill enough. I understand if you don't like heights - go for a nice e2e instead. I did one last week at a spot where any ladder work would have been suicide, and it came out nice and felt a lot better than churning out another ordinary panel. I'm not hating at all here, just feeling a little "ehh" about some of the unambitious-looking pieces in the usual spot. thanks for the clarity. i agree with everything you said though. and its not so much the heights i dont like its the WORK of climbing up and down a ladder 157 times im most afraid of. i would like to set up a few of e2e projects this year though. more than just names and connecting clouds too, which are fresh if you ask me, but like you said it is getting a little monotonous. i too am often inspired by old transit cars. and true the most memorable ones are the big ones, but there are a lot of pannels and e2es that are simply awe inspiring, and they consist of nothing more than a name, sick ass color scheme and a fruit filled cloud. unlike most, i believe in limits for graffiti, particularly on freights. i think its good to rock a fair share of pannels, just to keep the style juice flowing. the individual well of creativity however, should be tapped in moderation as not to have it run dry. if not, the next thing you know some fool is gonna be on here talking about how he did 2000 creatively superior whole cars in 4 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Average White Railfan Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 okay well maybe not all e2es' on boxcars look distorted, because this one is off the rictor scale. but youknowhatimsprayin! http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/showthrea...&threadid=36665 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BLACK Y Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 also some one made a good point about the eventual lack free panel space,,,,,,even though the fr8 lines are way bigger than the nyc transit system, space was an issue as well in ny. To resolve that issue they started to do bigger work or just really do burners when going over some ones shit. If one day your yard is over comed with simples by other people and your left with no space you have 2 choices. Leave and find a new spot or go bigger and more complex while going over the comp,,,its all about burning the comp,,i may be wrong but its just an opinoin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracked Ass Posted April 1, 2003 Author Share Posted April 1, 2003 On the "a freight Cap is coming" tip, it's harder to get ragged if you painted up high, fools have to exert themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogie hands Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 i have no idea where this covo has gone...i just read the initinal question/statement... i think the problem is most feight spots dont allow for anything more...the ladder/hump area is about the best most people can do outside of painting the usual spots....anthing else requires ladders or loading docks...ladders arent the best things to tote to spots and it seems that painting the loading dock side of a spot could easily put heat on an othewise relaxed layup....what are you left with??? its unfortunate but thats what a lot of us have to work with...granted its refreshing to see a floater on a boxcar but not all of us are lucky enough to have the opprotunity to do things like that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grittylifer Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 i try to make every one at least 8 panels. thats two panels in on the door and all the way to the end of the ladder. sometimes i slack. and as far as being hard doing freights? i deal with gangsters, heroin addicts, crackheads, tweakers, hookers, toys, cops, live trains and the occasional helicopter. fuck a wall. at least i know my shits gonna run. i have seen peices come back 5 years later untouched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup 'O Soup Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 When the freight CAP is prominent i'll give up trying to remotely accomplish anthing descent. Ive always loved that freights last longer than any wall. You contend with the buff, but only in a figurative sense. When you find writers and people acually, personally bent on covering other peoples graffiti, then you'll see the death of this train culture as we live it now. The feeling of mutuall respect on the rails while be totally lost. You alread have writers buffing freights with the proper car colour and not even hitting the car. There is a beginning to the breakdown of a feeling of comradery(sp) and the respect of a fellow vandal, yes this crap is still illegal.. when a person chooses to do the same as you and commit a crime with the same intrests.. in the communication and display of text.. in whatever form.. there is no right granted to another vandal to cover that person's work with their own. Clearly, spot checks take the forefront in the matter.. but rolling over what you think is crap is horrible. You don't have the right and you never did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grittylifer Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 come on though, tell me capping wack graffiti is not the funnest. besides, i got plenty of shits out there i hope someone has capped. my forty ounce victimized styles have been put to rest for the most part. i didnt even take flicks. fuck it. and besides with the numbers involved-a good year is what? over 300? who gives a fuck if you lose 20 or 30 or even forty or fifty. its all about end to ends with your clique. cause most fools wont fuck with that shit unless they go over you. fuck it though. nyc shit got ran over all the time. really though as long as you burn its all good. i have seen countless peices get gone over while the person who painted it was walking away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BLACK Y Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 its interesting on how some of you guys use the term "death of the fr8 scene ". I respect that you do what you can in your power to prolong fr8s running with graff on them. What happens if fr8s stop running next week will some of you stop writing because you cant rock trains. I would hope not, but some people seem so against walls . No one says you have to do a week long production,,, street bombing can be as much fun as a train. I feel like throw ups are becoming a last art. I really enjoy seeing people fill ins on fr8s,it can be such a nice change of pace as well instead of the usual panel, again the content of whats being done needs some variety Im surprised more people havent been doing roller paint tags on the flat hoppers, on some cost revs approach. oh well , im sure im wrong cause i dont get to se whats really going down out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostvandal Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 cheesecurd the picture is not working..damn geocities, could you post the flick please i'd really like to see it.. as for the end2ends/wholecar issue, for me its really an economic question. Im really broke. I fill with wow paint and 1.99$ canadian tire. I prefer doing 3-4 panels than 1 e2e. But sometimes i get some silver and do e2e every once in a while. I gotta get a job this summer.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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