By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum...
    You are currently logged out and viewing our forum as a guest which only allows limited access to our discussions, photos and other forum features. If you are a 12ozProphet Member please login to get the full experience.

    If you are not a 12ozProphet Member, please take a moment to register to gain full access to our website and all of its features. As a 12ozProphet Member you will be able to post comments, start discussions, communicate privately with other members and access members-only content. Registration is fast, simple and free, so join today and be a part of the largest and longest running Graffiti, Art, Style & Culture forum online.

    Please note, if you are a 12ozProphet Member and are locked out of your account, you can recover your account using the 'lost password' link in the login form. If you no longer have access to the email you registered with, please email us at [email protected] and we'll help you recover your account. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum (and don't forget to follow @12ozprophet in Instagram)!

"Free speech zones" and the accompanying irony.

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by Poop Man Bob, Jun 24, 2003.

  1. Poop Man Bob

    Poop Man Bob Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Nov 16, 2000 Messages: 10,259 Likes Received: 18
    *Note this post was taken in its entirety from here.

    "Free speech zones" -- essentially cop-surrounded holding pens for anyone who cares enough to speak but isn't called on by our masters -- are now commonly employed at political events, placed far out of sight and closely monitored by the authorities, lest any actual democracy occur.

    By definition, such enclosures make the rest of any such important gathering a non-free-speech zone. Protest that no one can see or hear is meaningless. (Just try to imagine the Civil Rights movement or Martin Luther King's speech outside the UN in an era of "free speech zones.") This cannot by any conceivable argument be the purpose of the First Amendment.

    Horrifying enough, right? But at least in 2000 you weren't prosecuted for federal offenses merely for speaking your mind. You got a dirty look. Maybe, in a few cases, you spent a few nights in jail or even caught a rubber bullet or two. All plenty objectionable enough. But you didn't get charged with a federal fucking offense.

    That has changed.

    Read this Economist story.

    Last October, a longtime activist named Brett Bursey held up a held a "No War For Oil" sign while waiting for Bush's arrival at the Columbia, SC airport.

    He was arrested for trespassing.

    Bursey reportedly held up his sign in the midst of a number of Bush supporters, who were allowed to speak their minds (such as they are) freely. They weren't arrested.

    Bursey was required to remain in the "free speech zone" -- half a mile away -- simply because he disagreed. So freedom of assembly and speech are dependent on your opinions -- meaning they aren't rights at all.

    And so Bursey was hauled away, even though no human being alive argues that Bursey was threatening or endangering anyone in any way. This is, quite explicitly, the criminalization of public opposition.

    And now (probably because this took place in a conservative jurisdiction where the case will be heard by a judge, not a jury -- giving the Bush/Ashcroft junta optimum chances at setting a chilling precedent) -- Bursey faces federal charges (and up to six months imprisonment and $5K in fines) under an obscure law, not previously applied this way, giving the Secret Service authority over presidential-visit areas.

    (Incidentally, the prosecutor is Strom Thurmond, Jr., son of the racist Senator who once ran for president with the slogan "Segregation Forever.")

    If a guilty verdict gets upheld through the courts (I think hell will be raised first, but who knows), then -- seriously, this is the logical consequence, the line being drawn here -- anyone protesting Bush within his sight (if the Secret Service so chooses) could be imprisoned on federal charges for doing so outside whatever arbitrary zone they're supposed to be in.

    And this is America? Unfreakinbelievable.

    You sometimes hear right-wing puffery about breathing deeply the sweet air of freedom.

    The Bush administration is a pillow, held firmly.
  2. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 622
    recently in an affluent neighborhood around my way, a college professor noticed several police occupied with pulling over drivers who were not using their seatbelts...that's all they were doing wrong

    the professor noted, to the police, what an incredible waste of time and resources that was in this city, the most dangerous, most violent in the u.s...

    the police arrested him
    he was taken downtown to central booking and processed with 'impeding a police investigation', i believe..he spent a hald a day in jail

    this is part of what is a disturbing trend in our country:

    the erosion of our civil liberties, the destruction of our freedom, and the creation of a police state in this country

    it's sad..no one has yet even responded to this thread..

    does anyone care about this shit?
    or are we gonna be left with a country full of lethargic know-nothings while all the decent people flee to canada and europe


  3. old*824

    old*824 Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 8, 2003 Messages: 1,362 Likes Received: 0
    and the really fucked up thing,,,,,is thats nothing compared to what ashcroft hitler got goin on.
  4. iloveboxcars

    iloveboxcars 12oz Royalty

    Joined: Jul 29, 2002 Messages: 20,506 Likes Received: 448
  5. NOUM

    NOUM Elite Member

    Joined: Mar 17, 2003 Messages: 3,966 Likes Received: 0
    not to be negative but if he was going about his biz instead of watching what the cops were doing then he would not of gotten' what he got..if your gonna have the right to free speech then when are you going to limit it..there not just gonna let you run around cussin at the president and yelling at who ever when ever..be real half these "law makers" don't even belive in half the shit they legalize..but yet still were led to belive its fredom of speech..notice they didn't say what he did they just booked him for "impeding a police investigation"..speech could be as free as it wants there just gonna find another way to take you down (just like the flag burning)
  6. Dick Quickwood

    Dick Quickwood 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Aug 25, 2002 Messages: 14,783 Likes Received: 14
  7. --zeSto--

    --zeSto-- Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2000 Messages: 6,979 Likes Received: 2
    the democratic system is was set up with 'checks and balances'.
    Once there is no longer any accountability or a balance of power
    in the higher political offices or even the cops on the beat, it will be then end of democracy.

    There was recently a child slaying in my city.
    The police canvased the area around the child's home taking dna
    snample from neighbours. You didn't have to do the swab if you didn't
    want to, but that ment that the police would root though your trash and
    find dna anyways. I think that that's a terrible way to get evidence.
    Even if you say 'No. Those are my Private genetics' they can go and
    break you constitutional rights to 'find' evidence.

    and my conservative co-worker believes that it's okay for
    the cops to 'take' you dna even if you didn't offer because it
    speeds up the investigation and takes less tax resources.
  8. Dick Quickwood

    Dick Quickwood 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Aug 25, 2002 Messages: 14,783 Likes Received: 14
    in the united states, when you put your garbage out to the curb, anyone can root through it legally. you should take your trash and put it in the garage untill the garbage people come
  9. Don't Panic

    Don't Panic Member

    Joined: Jun 2, 2003 Messages: 647 Likes Received: 0
    What the fuck? "Free Speech zones"? Who comes up with this shit?
  10. Vanity

    Vanity Veteran Member

    Joined: Apr 11, 2000 Messages: 7,673 Likes Received: 6
    i think it's supposed to be the equivalent of an information kiosk.
    but yeah...

    freedom is overrated.

    "when you sacrifice your freedom for security, you end up w/ neither"
  11. nomadawhat

    nomadawhat Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 24, 2001 Messages: 5,001 Likes Received: 2
    excuse me, sir, can you point me the way to where i can say, 'fuck this bullshit!'?
  12. vinyl junkie

    vinyl junkie Elite Member

    Joined: Jan 17, 2002 Messages: 4,725 Likes Received: 0
    actually, once your cans are set at the curb, it's contents become the property of your city's waste disposal company... that company, however, can then allow police access to it...
    trust me, i've actually been charged and "arrested and released" because of this...
  13. metallix

    metallix Elite Member

    Joined: Oct 7, 2001 Messages: 2,955 Likes Received: 1

  14. Dick Quickwood

    Dick Quickwood 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Aug 25, 2002 Messages: 14,783 Likes Received: 14
  15. Born Loser

    Born Loser New Jack

    Joined: Sep 14, 2001 Messages: 63 Likes Received: 0
    no way on hell I'm reading all that