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Flouride: good or bad?

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by Daddy Screw, Sep 27, 2003.

  1. Daddy Screw

    Daddy Screw Member

    Joined: Jun 15, 2002 Messages: 551 Likes Received: 29
    Came across this conspiracy theory, do any of you paranoid mofos knows anything about this?I always thought flouride was good for making my teeth white & strong, my breath minty fresh. Taken from on thread about the illuminati on www.dogsonacid.com.

    Behavioural effects on Fluorides on Mass Population

    Copy right 1998-2003

    Much research on the effects on fluorides on human physiology was done by the Mellon Institute, under contract with major corporations that produce fluoride. Because of the policies of Mellon, which does not allow the decades of research to be accessed by the public, except by express permission of thsose companies that contract with it, the data is not available to the public. However, there are literally thousands of scientific studies that list the effects of fluorides. There are no credible scientific studies that demonstrate that fluoride is safe to ingest. Studies which are paid for by companies who manufacture fluorides, products containing fluorides or have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo are invalid because of a conflict of interest. You can not trust the fox to guard the hen house.

    Animal Studies that carry over to Human Expectation

    Literally thousands of studies are available on the physiological effects on animals and humans. However, toxicity studies are chiefly carried out on animals. One of the immediate questions that arrises is the relevance on animal studies to humans. A 1995 study, Neurotoxcity of Sodium Fluoride on Rats {1} indicates that experience with other developmental neurotoxicants prompts expectations that changes in behavioral functions will be comparable among species, especially humans and Rats. {2} The reason that Rats appear to be used, rather then Mice is that Rats have a higher resistance to toxins and will not manifest symptoms as readily. Logic tells us that if Rats are affected, then the potential of human damage is atleast as great.

    Human Considerations with Fluorides

    Fluorides have been added to public water supplies for over 40 years. Even looking at the issue on a superficial level, dental fluorsis has been on the rise in the mass population since the 1960s. {3} is an indicator that the total amount of fluoride intake, including water fluoridation, is has been on a serious level for some time. Exposures to dietary fluoride easily exceed 100 million parts per million (toothpastes) which are packaged in alluminium tubes {4} contain 1000 to 1500 ppm fluoride {5}

    Mouthrinses contain 230 – 900 ppm {6} Store-bought juices can contain 2.8 ppm fluoride {7} a fact that even the American Dental Association admits {8} However, biological effects are apparent at even lower levels {9} and fluorides are accumulative in the brain {10} with the effects of behavior related directly to plasma fluoride levels {11}

    Thus, there are studies that directly contradict claims by proponents that fluorides do not pass the blood-brain barrier {12} which only reflect short-term situations. Fluorides are cumulative, and short-term studies are specifically in a weak attempt to circumvent biological data {13} Research indicates that agencies like the AMA and ADA were reasonably honest about the issue prior to 1945, before corporate pressure apparently told them to “get in line”

    According to AMA on September 18, 1943. Fluorides are general protoplasmic poisons, with the capacity to modify the metabolism of cells by inhibiting certain enzymes. Sources of fluorine intoxication include drinking water containing 1ppm or more fluorine {14} Amazing, isn’t it? Even the ADA was honest back then, in October 1, 1944. when it said “drinking water containing as little as 1.22 ppm will cause developmental disturbances . . . we can not run the risk of producing such serious systemic disturbances. In light of our present knowledge of the chemistry of the subject, the potentialities of harm outweigh those for good {15} So since the properties of fluorides haven’t changed , and the nature of human physiology hasn’t changed, why do they maintain today that it causes “no harm”? Whats wrong with this picture? Since everything in Society flows from top-down, we can only assume that governmental agency pressure is the reason. In fact, that is precisely the case. But why would they want to do that?

    Since acquisition of reports on the behavior effects of fluorides on the brain from US sources is quiet difficult, most of the reports (but not all) are from foreign research Chinese investigations have found that levels of fluoride in water from 3-1 ppm affect the nervous system directly without first causing physical deformations from skeletal fluorosis {16}

    Experiments on Rats and Fluorides
    In rats exposed to 100 ppm fluoride for six weeks, starting at the age of three months, fluoride levels increased in the medulla oblongata in both sexes, and in the hippocampus of females, the sex with significant behavioral disturbances [ 17 ].It is a matter of fact that the hippocampus is neurologically considered to be the "central processor" in the brain which integrates inputs from the environment, memory, and motivational stimuli to produce behavioral decisions and modify memory [ 18 ]. Humans are exposed to plasma levels of fluoride as high as those found in rat studies [ 19 ], and considering water and food products containing fluoride are given to babies and young children, it involves interruption of normal brain development [ 20 ] and subsequent interference in the way a human being perceives and is able to react to the environment.
    Furthermore, generic behavioral pattern disruption as found in rat studies can be indicative of a potential for motor dysfunction, intelligence deficits and learning disabilities in humans [ 21 ]. As far as accumulation of fluorides in the brain is concerned, with rats it was found, in one case, that six weeks of consuming 75 and 100 ppm fluoride produced a higher plasma fluoride level than did 125 ppm [ 22 ]. So, long-term accumulation of low doses has a significant effect. The medical establishment knew this in 1944, because they specifically said that levels above 1ppm were dangerous. Why, then, was the "optimum level" for water fluoridation (never mind the higher levels in foods and juices) set at 1ppm? Why would the World Health Organization have a target of fluoridating water supplies planetwide by the year 2000? [ 23 ] Why does the Clinton administration push so hard to have the United States completely fluoridated by the year 2000? Why does Mexico add 250 mg of potassium fluoride to the salt consumed by the population? [ 24 ] Why in 1996 is the U.S. sending proponents of fluoridation to Scotland and England to help quell the justifiable concerns of the public, who are being termed "civil rights activists"?
    More Human Studies
    The Chinese have been a great souce of information on the effect of fluorides on the intelligence of children. A study done in 1995 by Li of 907 children demonstrated that "the IQ of children living in areas of fluorosis was lower than areas where there was no fluorosis"[ 25 ].
    According to the Li study, "it appears that the influence of a fluoride environment on the development of intelligence may occur early in development, such as the stages of embryonic life or infancy, when the differentiation and growth of the nervous system is most rapid." [ 26 ]
    Furthermore, "active and comprehensive measures should be taken to reduce the fluoride intake by the population." [ 27 ] If we are already getting an overdose from the environment, why do we need it added to the water? The practice, even in terms of simple logic, is no defensible in any shape, way or manner. Lastly, the Li study concludes with, "this suggests that developing brain tissues are sensitive to fluorides." [ 28 ]
    Other Chinese studies support the work by Li [ 29 ]. Since fluoride levels in the body are cumulative, and fluoride intake lowers intelligence, the end result is a population with little ability to evolve. Since studies which claim that fluorides prevent cavities are contracted by parties with a conflict of interest, and there is no credible scientific evidence to suggest that it does [ 31 ]. One of the many reasons they can get away with this is because of the paradoxical effect of the effect of toxins on biological systems.
    There is not a linear dose-response relationship [ 32 ]. What this means is that a small amount of fluoride concentration has a great effect. Orthodox media and science tells the public that a linear effect is the only observable phenomena. They're lying. As the total accumulation of fluorides is approaching a toxic level, we see all sorts of physiological phenomena in progress. Even gastrointestinal problems and acid-stomach is produced by fluoridated water [ 33 ].
    Other Historical Factors
    According to Senator Ambruster in his magnificent tome Treason's Peace - German Dyes and American Dupes (1947), one of the largest producers of fluorides as a hazardous waste by-product was the Aluminium Company of America (ALCOA), who had a 1931 agreement with I.G. Farben in Germany, as did Dow Chemical Company (1933) to restrict American production of materials vital to the U.S. war effort. Other companies such as Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI, England), DuPont, Standard Oil (Rockefeller, who contributed war materials and money to Hitler), American Cyanamid and Sterling-Winthrop-Bayer were Farben associates. Indictments were filed against several of these companies on January 30, 1941, covering conspiracy, but inside forces spent so much effort at softening up the Justice Department (which is still corrupt today) to prevent prosecution that by April 15, 1942, all the defendants pleaded nolo contendre ("oh, well, what if we did?") and paid fines of $25,000 each. It is also a fact that I.G. Farben itself was indicted, but the case never came to court. Some of Farben's leading subsidiaries in the U.S. were General Aniline and Film (GAF), American I.G., and Bayer, but it was their associate ALCOA which figured prominently in the introduction of fluoride wastes from aluminum production (difficult of dispose of), quickly joined by LCI (Florida) and other fertilizer industries who had fluoride by-products classified by the EPA as hazardous waste [ 39 ].
    [ 1 ] Neurotoxicology and Teratology, Vol 17, No,2, pp.169-177, "Neurotoxicity of Sodium Fluoride in Rats", Muellenix, Denbesten, Schunior, Kernan, 1995.
    [ 2 ] Neurotoxicology and Teratology, Vol 12, pp.285-292, 1990, Francis et al, "Workshop on the qualitative and quantitative comparibility of human and animal developmental neurotoxicity: Summary and implications"; Neurotoxicology and Teratology, Vol 12, pp.261-267, Stanton et al, "Comparability of measures of developmental neurotoxicity in humans and laboratory animals", 1990
    [ 3 ] Centers for Disease Control. Public Health Service Report on "fluoride risks". MMWR 40, No. RR-7, 1-8; 1991.
    [ 4 ] In July 1993, a scientific study of the effect of fluoride on rats links behavior changes and brain damage with aluminum and fluoride. [ Varner, J.A. et al, "Chronic Aluminum Fluoride Administration: II. Selected Histological Observations" Neuroscience Research Communications, Vol 13 No.2, 1993, pp.99-104 ; Chase, M., "Rat Studies Link Brain Cell Damage with Aluminum and Fluoride in Water", Wall Street Journal, October 28, 1992.]
    [ 5 ] Pediatric Dentisty, Vol 10, pp.185-188, 1988, Beltran et al, "Fluoride in toothpastes for children" ; Monographs of Oral Science, Vol 13, P.1-160, 1959, Whitford, G.M., "The metabolism and toxcity of fluoride."
    [ 6 ] Monographs of Oral Science, Vol 13, P.1-160, 1959, Whitford, G.M., "The metabolism and toxcity of fluoride."
    [ 7 ] A report surfaces that fluoride-containing pesticides on fruit increase human fluoride intake. Some juices contain 6.8 ppm fluoride. [Stannard, J.G., et al, "Fluoride levels and fluoride contamination of fruit juices", Journal of Clinical Pediatric Dentistry, Vol 16 No 1, 1991, pp.38-40 ; "Assessing Fluoride Concentration of Juices and Juice-Flavored Drinks", Journal of the American Dental Association, JADA Preview, 1996, Kiritsy et al.]
    [ 8 ] Journal of the American Dental Association, Kiritsy et al, 1996, JADA Previews, "Assessing Fluoride Concentrations of Juices and Juice-Favored Drinks".
    [ 9 ] Scientific information is published on the Paradoxical Effect of the biological effect of chemical toxins, in an article by Shatz et al. That is the response increases with time and then diminishes with even higher doses. In other words there is not a linear relationship between dose and effect. This means that there is no threshold below which fluorides and radiation, for example, are harmless. This also applies to the electromagnetic effects on human biology. [Shatz, A., et al, "The Occurrence and Importance of Paradoxical Concentration Effects on Biological Systems", Compost Science, Vol 5, p.22-30, Spring 1964 ; Shatz, A., "Low Level Fluoridation and Low-Level Radiation - Two Case Histories of Misconduct of Science", by A. Schatz, Ph.D, 1996]
    [ 10 ] Neurotoxicology and Teratology, Vol 17, No,2, p.175, "Neurotoxicity of Sodium Fluoride in Rats", Muellenix, Denbesten, Schunior, Kernan, 1995.
    [ 11 ] Ibid.
    [ 12 ] American Journal of Physiology, Vol 236, F141-146, 1979, Pashley et al, "Short-term kinetics",1979.
    [ 13 ] This rationale is also seen within the paradigm of vaccination, mercury amalgam,etc. See Matrix III Volume II, Leading Edge Research Group, P.O. Box 7530, Yelm, Washington 98597.
    [ 14 ] Journal of the American Medical Association, September 18, 1943.
    [ 15 ] Journal of the American Dental Association, Editorial, October 1, 1944.
    [ 16 ] Chinese Journal of Endemiology, Vol 2. Pp.63-70, 1992, "The nervous systemic complications of chronic fluorosis", Ding, L.I. ; Hu, Y.H., et al, The Compilation of the First Conference on Neuropsychiatric Diseases in Xinjian, "Fluoride in cerebrospinal fluid of patients with fluorosis", pp86-88, 1982 ; Shung-Guan, C.M., et al, Chinese Journal of Internal Medicine, Vol 21, pp.217-219, 1982, "The non-skeletal lesions of endemic fluorosis", 1982.
    [ 17 ] Neurotoxicology and Teratology, Vol 17, No,2, p.175, "Neurotoxicity of Sodium Fluoride in Rats", Muellenix, Denbesten, Schunior, Kernan, 1995.
    [ 18 ] Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Review, Vol 16, pp.63-70, 1992, Delong G.R., "Autism, amnesia, hippocampus and learning.".
    [ 19 ] Neurotoxicology and Teratology, Vol 17, No,2, p.176, "Neurotoxicity of Sodium Fluoride in Rats", Muellenix, Denbesten, Schunior, Kernan, 1995.
    [ 20 ] Ibid.
    [ 21 ] Ibid.
    [ 22 ] Ibid.
    [ 23 ] The WHO internet site and other documents establish this target. Also, the CDC Morbidity and Mortality Report on May 29, 1992 and the ADA News on January 3, 1994. The WHO also engages in international fluoride politics, intimidation and bribery. See Matrix III Vol II, p.307. The United States is the most medicated nation on earth. Now, who would want to medicate the "land of freedom"? Why is the fluoridation of aborigines and indian tribes so vital to governments? Many questions abound.
    [ 24 ] Salt Fluoridation in Mexico, Dr. Lucila Pazoz Hernandez, National Coordinator of the Salt Fluoridation Program in Mexico. On May 27, 1991, Mexico became the seventh country in the world to adopt salt fluoridation as a "mass measure." The salt fluoridation program is also part of international commitments, such as the 1979 resolutions of the Pan American Health Organization.
    [ 25 ] X.S.Li et al, Fluoride, Vol 26, No.4, pp.189-192, 1995, "Effect of Fluoride Exposure on Intelligence In Children". Presented to the 20th Conference of the International Society for Fluoride Research, Beijing, China, September 5-9, 1994.
    [ 26 ] Ibid., p.191-192.
    [ 27 [ Ibid., p. 192.
    [ 28 ] Ibid.
    [ 29 ] Guo, X.C., et al, "A preliminary exploration of IQ of 7-13 year-old pupils in a fluorosis area with contamination from burning coal", Chinese Journal of Control of Endemic Dieases, Vol 10, No.2, pp. 98-100, 1991 ; Qin, L.S. et al, "The Influence of drinking water fluoride on pupils IQ", Chinese Journal of Control of Epidemic Diseases, Vol 5. No.4, pp.203-204, 1990 ; Manual of Anti-Epidemic Fluorosis, Bureau of Anti-Epidemic Diseases, Ministry of Public Health, Harbin, 1989 ; Ha, H., et al, "The Influence of Fluoride on the Human Embryo", Chinese Journal of Control of Epidemic Diseases, Vol 4, pp.136-137, 1989 ; Du.L., et al, "The Influence of chronic fluorosis on the development of the brain of the Human Embryo", Journal of Fluorosis Research Communications, Vol 138, 1991. Source: The International Society for Fluoride Research, Auckland, New Zealand.
    [ 31 ] In fact a 1992 study in Tucson, Arizona of 26,000 elementary school children found that the more fluoride a child consumes, the more cavities appear in the teeth. No wonder the ADA promotes it. The study was conducted by the University of Arizona, headed by professor emeritus Cornelius Steelink. It was also revealed that children living in a fluoridated community had 11 times more risk of fluorosis. Many studies with similar results abound
    [ 32 ] Shatz, A., et al, "The Occurrence and Importance of Paradoxical Concentration Effects on Biological Systems", Compost Science, Vol 5, p.22-30, Spring 1964 ; Shatz, A., "Low Level Fluoridation and Low-Level Radiation - Two Case Histories of Misconduct of Science", by A. Schatz, Ph.D, Philadelphia, 1996
    [ 33 ] Scientific report reveals the connection between fluorides and non-ulcer dyspepsia (epigastric pain after eating). [ Gupta, I.P., et al, "Fluoride as a Possible Etiological Factor in Non-Ulcer Dyspepsia", Journal of Gastroenterology and Hepatology, Vol 7, 1992, pp.355-356 ; also, Susheela, A.K., "Fluoride Ingestion and Its Correlation with Gastrointestinal Discomfort", Fluoride, Vol 25 No.1, 1992,pp.5-22] Note: Since fluorides are cumulative in the body, the general level in the population where large gastric problems arise may be occurring. Thus, the large marketing effort for "acid controllers" in the 1990's, which may also be covering up the prevalence of heliobacter pylori infection as well as approaching fluoride toxicity in the population.
    [ 35 ] Ibid.
    [ 36 ] Ibid.
    [ 37 ] Ibid.
    [ 38 ] Fluoridation, Jansen.
    [ 39 ] Treason's Peace: German Dyes and American Dupes, Senator Howard W. Ambruster, Beechhurst Press, New York, 1947.
    [ 40 ] Fluoridation, Isabel Jansen, R.N, Tri-State Press, 1990 ; The Greatest Fraud: Fluoridation, Philip R.N. Sutton, Karunda Pty, Ltd, Lorne, Australia, 1996 ; The Dickenson Statement: A Mind-Boggling Thesis, Ian E. Stephens, 1987.
  2. Dick Quickwood

    Dick Quickwood 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Aug 25, 2002 Messages: 14,783 Likes Received: 14
    i don't give a fuck what benefits it provides, if i wanted flouride in my water i would put it into my water myself.
  3. Daddy Screw

    Daddy Screw Member

    Joined: Jun 15, 2002 Messages: 551 Likes Received: 29
    apparently flourides are quite unavoidable. They can be found in bottled fruit juice, processed food, toothpaste, a lot of insecticides as well, which means they'd be all up on your fruit, veg.
  4. Swiffer Jet

    Swiffer Jet Elite Member

    Joined: Jul 14, 2003 Messages: 2,669 Likes Received: 0
    florida either have been having flouride in the water or they just recently agreed to adding flouride to the water sooo....
  5. --zeSto--

    --zeSto-- Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2000 Messages: 6,979 Likes Received: 2
    interesting post...

    just as a tip,
    If you're posting something as long as that,
    make a point of Bolding a few key lines
    for people to skim. That way if some line seem interesting,
    we'll probably read the whole thing. Just a friendly tip.
  6. mr.yuck

    mr.yuck Veteran Member

    Joined: May 12, 2000 Messages: 6,952 Likes Received: 6
    I actually wrote a dillusional little paper on this in highschool. I made it all up of course but my paper had to do with flouride weakening peoples motivation. It was put in the water at the order of the government to keep people in line and follow what ever they say. I bet you won't ever see Bush drinking tap water. At any rate I never thought that my story had any kind of validity to it other than it was my own personal dillusions. Mr.yuck knows what's up. You wont catch this fool brushing his teeth ever.
  7. --zeSto--

    --zeSto-- Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2000 Messages: 6,979 Likes Received: 2
    so is that why they call you Mr.Yuck?
  8. mr.yuck

    mr.yuck Veteran Member

    Joined: May 12, 2000 Messages: 6,952 Likes Received: 6
    Haha. I keep my teeth brushed. I'm just all around dirty, though. I guess I'm about one or twp steps above a bum.
  9. suburbian bum

    suburbian bum 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Jan 30, 2001 Messages: 14,673 Likes Received: 3
    Ahh fuck it. Yall are paranoid. Even spring water has flouride. Yeah im not happy it is added to our drinking water, but its not gonna have a huge effect on me.
  10. suburbian bum

    suburbian bum 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Jan 30, 2001 Messages: 14,673 Likes Received: 3
    Hca you guys ever done the thing at the dentist where they have that flouride foam they put in your teeth? i bet thats like a 5000 ppm dose. My mom wouldnt elt the dentists do that to me when i was young because she thought flouride robbed your bones of calcium.... once I was old enough to make the desicion myself i let them flouride me, I am cavity free. I dunno if it is because of that though...
  11. KaBar2

    KaBar2 Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Messages: 2,126 Likes Received: 64
    People have been dissing this theory for years

    Especially the liberal intelligensia. Worrying about fluorides in one's drinking water has always been the mark of a good candidate for the right-wing, tin-foil-hat crowd. Sort of the dietary equivalent of worrying about microwave radiation or subliminal messages on the TV.

    I'm with ARCEL. If I wanted fluorides in my drinking water, I'd put 'em there myself. And they do a pretty good job of killing the bacteria that cause dental caries, so since fluoride is definately a poison, tell me again why it is they need to add it to EVERYBODY'S water?
  12. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5
    i hada friend that worked for a local tv station on the late night shift...they used to flash subliminal messages on tv during commercial breaks...nothing too serious, just some kids having fun. i think they flashed SEX alot, and some other various things that they thought would be funny....but it did happen. i've read alot about subliminal messages and the guy who came up with the "have a coke" or " why not go to the snack bar?" type shit in the fifties during the intermission at movie theaters. i really don't know if it worked, i don't recall ever reading any conclusive proof, either. it doesn't matter, i guess...but if you look on the side of a bud light half case, you'll see a to of skulls and representationa of "death" (you know, black shroud, all that good shit) which is a sign of alcoholism....maybe the artists were alcoholics? it seems to fit...by drunks, for drunks....this has nothing to do with flouride, i know, but interesting, nevertheless
  13. rubbish heap

    rubbish heap Senior Member

    Joined: Mar 18, 2003 Messages: 1,563 Likes Received: 2
    so i guess the only way to drink flouride-free water would be to go to a stream and filter the water yourself?
  14. Big Bruno

    Big Bruno Senior Member

    Joined: Oct 8, 2001 Messages: 2,472 Likes Received: 70
    I've always disliked flouride. It just doesn't seem logical for the toothpaste industry. It's like at tire stores. They will offer a service called 'splicing' or something to that effect. They cut little diagonal lines into your tires and say that it will increase the life of your tires and make them safer. But why would they want to increase the life of your tires? That means that they lose a shit ton of business. I'm convinced this is the same with flouride and the toothpaste industry. Maybe.
  15. space base

    space base Senior Member

    Joined: May 4, 2003 Messages: 1,765 Likes Received: 0
    They tried to do it Santa Cruz but the people wouldn't have it.