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Florida to expand law on gun use


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BBC

A law letting people in Florida kill in self-defence on the street without first trying to flee an attacker has been passed by Florida politicians.

 

 

 

 

YAHoo!

 

U.S. National - AFP

AFP

Florida eyes allowing residents to open fire whenever they see threat

 

Wed Apr 6, 4:11 PM ET

 

Add to My Yahoo! U.S. National - AFP

 

MIAMI (AFP) - Florida's legislature has approved a bill that would give residents the right to open fire against anyone they perceive as a threat in public, instead of having to try to avoid a conflict as under prevailing law.

 

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AFP/File Photo

 

 

 

Outraged opponents say the law will encourage Floridians to open fire first and ask questions later, fostering a sort of statewide Wild West shootout mentality. Supporters argue that criminals will think twice if they believe they are likely to be promptly shot when they assault someone.

 

Republican Governor Jeb Bush, who has said he plans to sign the bill, says it is "a good, commonsense, anti-crime issue."

 

Current state law allows residents to "shoot to kill if their property, such as their home or car, is invaded by an unknown assailant."

 

But it also states that if a resident is confronted or threatened in a public place, he or she must first try to avoid the confrontation or flee before taking any violent step in self defense against an assailant.

 

The bill, supported by the influential National Rifle Association, was approved by both houses of the Republican-run legislature on Tuesday.

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So the current law states that your allowed to shoot dead anyone who commits break and enter, before your even threatened or know that he has a weapon ? That your allowed to fire before you even stay "stick em up" ?

 

honestly - your country sucks

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Originally posted by WhiteOx@Apr 7 2005, 06:32 AM

So the current law states that your allowed to shoot dead anyone who commits break and enter, before your even threatened or know that he has a weapon ? That your allowed to fire before you even stay "stick em up" ?

 

honestly - your country sucks

 

 

Oh yeah man... you can get shot in some places just for stepping foot on someones property...

I've been shot at a few times like that...

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Thats fucked up, The US already has major problems with gun control and violence. This serves no purpose but too only increase the gap in trying to fix that problem .

 

I also think its fucked up that down there you can pretty much find any kind of weapon or personal security device you want , and all pretty cheap.( tasers, guns, knuckles,auto-batons, BP vests, switchblades etc etc) . Yet here 95% of those things are not only illegal , but really difficult to find for the average person . And theyre pretty expensive once you do find them.

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FIRST OFF you can buy guns anywhere.

 

But it seems like a move to, A, get the NRA people happy and B, this can eventually lead to spending less on law enforcement and at the same time cut down on the number of cases the bog down our legal system.

 

I also think that there are some people that might need to be encouraged to protect themselves. Cause really what do the police do if you need them? Less and Less these days.

 

The best times ive had with cops is when they really should be arresting me but dont. Ivenever been in need and been helped by john law; Im not mad at them helping not arrest me but in times of emergency they are less useful to me and many others.

 

 

SO in fla the best move is to not make any sudden movements and stay vested up, and be ready to buck.

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You all sound like faggot sheep and here is why...

The medias attempt at scareing us to disarm is nothing but government propoganda, don't ever get it twisted. If you live in a "free" country you take on certain risks that are involved with being free. We don't live in a "free country", that is why the government is doing everything they can to distract and confuse you while they disarm you (mentally and literally) to make damn sure that there is never again a revolt against them. They're telling you you can't be trusted to own a gun because your stupid and you'll shoot someone. Mean while every cop has a gun and alot of them are itching to use it yet we should trust them to not shoot us. Yet every time one of them unjustifiably shoots one of us, they get let off the hook and there aint shit you can do to prevent some cowboy cop from shooting your son, or brother, or freind or whatever cause now aint nobody but the cops got guns! Why do you think it was so important to the founding (liberal) fathers that we be aloud to keep and bare arms? So we can hunt??? Eeeerrr.... wrong! It's so we can keep this country free and safe from those that would conspire to enslave us!

 

People kill people. It's always been and always will be that way. Even if we are fooled into submition and the only people that have guns are cops. They will kill, and other people will kill other people by other means. And I am sick to death with this propoganda about "liberals" being anti guns! Yall hear it so much that yall think it's the "liberal" way or some shit and you buy into this shit! The word "liberal" derives from liberty.--->It means freedom. As in you believe in freedom. The only way to ensure freedom is to protect it. The only way to protect it is to stay armed and educated and to not allow yourself and your people to be enslaved. The only way to do that is to stay armed so future governments have no abillity to enact the curent police state that we are experiencing now (and it's only gonna get worse if we aint got the guns to protect ourselves.). It aint necesarilly about a civil war, it's the fact that the less armed we are the bolder they are in their laws and restrictions, foreign policy, etc, etc,. If we were armed the way we were in the 1800's they wouldn't have the balls to be pulling the shit they are now! That is the exact reason why the founding fathers made it a point that the government shall never have the power to disarm the people. They wanted us to have the power to rebel if shit got out of hand!!!

Everyone in my familly, going generations back before me, was taught from child hood how to handle, use and clean a gun. And taught that a gun is not a toy and not to fuck around with it. This is what kept people from stupidly getting shot. And I'm from Philly, not bumblefuck Arkansas.

 

 

Also, how you gonna give some thug-ass criminal who busted into your crib the chance to kill you before you man up and shoot dude first??? I mean, how you gonna try and flee and expect shit to just work out???

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Jacked from a different thread...

Originally posted by KaBar2@Apr 8 2005, 05:57 AM

This is an extrapolation of the "An armed society is a polite society" Southernism.  True for me.  Don't know about you.

 

Can't say I agree with everything this guy says, but this one makes alot of sense.

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...couple things...first off, your scenario at the end is not what the new law is stating, under existing law, in almost every state, you can rightfully shoot an intruder in your home without giving a warning or trying to flee...i know a guy that killed someone that tried to break into his place...no charges...the new law says that in public, like anywhere outside of your home, you can shoot someone by feeling threatened...i'm not sure exactly how the verbage on this is, but i believe that it allows alot of freedom for the shooter...want to talk about the forefathers?...how about innocent until proven guilty?...in this case, not only do you not have to be guilty, you don't even have to commit a crime...

 

...as far as defending freedom..this is something i've gotten into on some of the other threads, so i'm not going to exaggerate too much...but...unless you have a militia armed with tanks, submarines and nuclear weapons, you stand no chance at all of fending of the nation should they decide to errode your freedom...the right to bear arms is a facade...it doesn't mean shit...in the 18th century guns were the most powerful weapons, so having armed citizens did mean that they were a force to be reckoned with, but in the present era, with a 200 billion dollar budget, the military would just laugh at a bunch of gun totin' civilians tryin to defend themselves...

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Originally posted by porque@Apr 8 2005, 06:41 AM

...couple things...first off, your scenario at the end is not what the new law is stating, under existing law, in almost every state, you can rightfully shoot an intruder in your home without giving a warning or trying to flee...

 

I was arguing with the people on this thread that were against this.

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Originally posted by porque@Apr 8 2005, 06:41 AM

...as far as defending freedom..this is something i've gotten into on some of the other threads, so i'm not going to exaggerate too much...but...unless you have a militia armed with tanks, submarines and nuclear weapons, you stand no chance at all of fending of the nation should they decide to errode your freedom...the right to bear arms is a facade...it doesn't mean shit...in the 18th century guns were the most powerful weapons, so having armed citizens did mean that they were a force to be reckoned with, but in the present era, with a 200 billion dollar budget, the military would just laugh at a bunch of gun totin' civilians tryin to defend themselves...

 

This goes back to my statement about how if we were still armed the government wouldn't have the gaul to be pulling the shit they are.

And we wouldn't need nukes or tanks and shit if the whole country decided they were fed up and a more popular political party (backed by the majority of Americans) had the armed access to stage a coup. What's the government gonna do, go to war with its entire country? Shit, I'd bet the majority of the military would even back up the people. Shit happens in Europe all the time.

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...granted...the majority of successful coups are achieved because the military choses to act aginst the ruling power...something that is completely feasible in the us since our military is made up of citizens (...all be it, slightly brainwashed civilians)...but that has nothing to do with normal citizens possesing guns...guns don't mean shit anymore...i could give a million people guns and tell them to start a revolution and nothing would happen...the only way a revolution would happen is with a concensus of ideas...

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True dat! But my point is that if we were all armed and educated (not to be confused with brainwashed) the government wouldn't have the balls to be doing half the shit they are. And jackers and other criminals wouldn't have the balls to be pulling half the shit they do as well.

But your right about niggahs being brainwashed and dummyfied. That's half my point too.

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Originally posted by WhiteOx@Apr 8 2005, 07:55 AM

its a cycle - the more armed the general populace is, the more armed crims are gonna get

 

more guns = more accidental gun deaths, more undue self defense killings, more murders

 

That's bullshit propoganda.

The more armed the general populace= the less likely someones gonna fuck with you (even if they have a gun too).

The more guns in the culture=the more gun safety being taught to people from an early age, therefore more respect for the power of guns and less gun accidents.

Killings and murders are gonna happen regardless, whether it be by the gun, a knife, a baseball bat, an ax, a sledgehammer, a fucking samurai sword, a carpenters hammer, a got damn screwdriver, the hand, or a fucking molotov fucking coctail! If a niggah wants you dead he's gonna find a way to try to kill you!!!

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Originally posted by SF1@Apr 8 2005, 03:12 AM

 

That's bullshit propoganda.

The more armed the general populace= the less likely someones gonna fuck with you (even if they have a gun too).

The more guns in the culture=the more gun safety being taught to people from an early age, therefore more respect for the power of guns and less gun accidents.

Killings and murders are gonna happen regardless, whether it be by the gun, a knife, a baseball bat, an ax, a sledgehammer, a fucking samurai sword, a carpenters hammer, a got damn screwdriver, the hand, or a fucking molotov fucking coctail! If a niggah wants you dead he's gonna find a way to try to kill you!!!

 

this post is right on.

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nothing i love more than political or social commentary that begins by informing the reader that they're an mindless 'faggot'. way to really pull the reader in!

 

florida is such a hysterical combination of 'hypocrit' and 'what the fuck are they thinking?' that to even bother to dignify this with an attempt to debunk it is not worth even the amount of effort it's taken me thus far. luckily though, i'm bored as shit, so here we go.

 

i'm for concealed carry permits, i'm for allowing people to protect themselves. i am not for laws that allow a man to murder someone legally, who otherwise would have been too stupid to come up with a story that justified their action.

now any drunk crack head that comes up to you on the street mumbling incoherently can be shot dead by some yahoo. awesome. meanwhile florida they just wasted an assload of money attempting to protect the 'sacredness' of life.

right.

 

 

can we trade cuba for florida? please?

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Who said I was anti gun? I'm very much pro guns. I own several. Including assault rifles. I just think there is a great potential for abuse in this law. As seeking already pointed out.

 

As for keeping and maintaining a militia... Don't underestimate the power of low intensity, irregular warfare. The enemy learned long ago that the great Amerikkka can be defeated in guerilla warfare.

But as mentioned previously, the real problem is psychological warfare, which supercedes any action.

A good example is Venezuela, where just a couple of years ago there was an attempted coup by business leaders, the church, and the media... but guess what? The people didn't join them and the coup failed. Why? Because they have attained a high rate of literacy there (98% among adults) and they must have a pretty good network of underground news and samizdat because obviously they were not falling for the propaganda the media was spewing. So we have true, popular, democratic leadership in Venezuela. America's opposition to this says much for our current condition.

Take a lesson americans. Free yo mind, and yo ass will follow.

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I think its a great idea, the reason "aggressors" go after you is because they know they can get away with it and chances are you wont kill them. Now that the law is on the "defenders" side, a motherfucker tries to do some stupid shit to you, you just shoot him.

 

 

Let me remind you some history. More guns means better safety. Look at the old west, everyone was ALWAYS polite to each other because they didn't know if the guy had a gun or not! The kids were educated early about guns.... and no guns don't just "go off" that’s bullshit, ive handled guns on bumps, drops, throws and not once did a bullet fire.

 

Those who oppose guns must really like Jesse Jackson "The man didn't pull the trigger, the gun went off on its own!" This was a quote referred to some black guy who was getting charged with murder after shooting his white girlfriend in the head and stated that the "gun fell out of his hand, hit the stairs and a bullet got fired straight into the girls head"

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Guy above: America wasnt "defeated" by guerilla warfare. The PEOPLE OF AMERICA were, the military was fucking the VC up in Vietnam, 22:1 kill ratio but the pussy ass American public was protesting all over the fucking place...

 

This was all because of the DRAFT..... no neeed for that shit again.

 

Thats all we need right now a bunch of Hippies in the streets fighting for "world Peace" you wanna fight for world peace, join the peace corps or some shit, dont crowd the street.

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I can understand shooting someone if they break in your house... I can understand shooting someone out of self defense, but to be able to shoot people because you "feel threatened" is on the ridiculous side. People could just make shit up to justify killing someone. That's my whole point.

 

The old west and safe do not belong in the same sentence.

Everyone knows the old west was full of gunslingers and vigilantes, and cattle rustlers, and bandits and whatever....

 

I'm aware of the kill ratio in Vietnam... We won the battles but we lost the war. Numbers alone don't give you victory. Or whatever Sun Tzu said.

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If the American people wouldn't bitch so much during that time, we would have been in Vietnam for 2 years more and we woulda crushed the VC. And don't forget that Vietnam didn't fall until the NVA went ona final major offensive.

 

There were only an estimated 250k guerilla fighters left, going at the same rate, we woulda fucked them up. Guerilla warfare is not warfare to defeat somone military, its warfare to changed the minds of the public of that country so they make the gov. pull out.

 

And since the American people are too fucking dumb to see that, it may-may not happen again... in regards to Iraq.

 

 

Revise- I made it sound liek the Vietname war was worthy of us fighting... it wasn't if they wanted to turn communist, fuck it let em. Waste of 68K men.

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Yeah bob that's how I feel about it.

What the fuck were we even doing in Vietnam? That's why we lost... because the peoples hearts were not into that war. The Vietnamese kicked out the French, kicked out US, and the communist Chinese.... they just wanted to be left alone. And we didn't want to be there and to this day we are still not so sure why we were even there....

 

And the guerilla war in Vietnam was primarily targeting the military. What government was there at the time in vietnam? We assumed the position of government. The NVA had infiltrated all over south vietnam and as soon as they drove "the government" (the US) out they would assume control again.

I just watched apocalypse now last night... good movie.

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