flight93 crash or shot down

So a good friend of mine is participating in the memrial design competiton to 'honor' the passengers and crew of flight 93. If youve been under a rock its the flight that went down in Penn.

So my friend went to the site for a visit, thee were tours for those who wanted to be a part of the competition. And in the process we have been talking about the circumstances of the crash. I now believe that this plain was forced, SHOT, down by the US; it was 20 minutes from DC, and it just happens to crash in a unpopulated corner of the state. Odd.

Im sure this is old news to many of you, but its been on my mind recently.

As part of the competition there are various plots of land that are deemed "sacred" meaning only park official and family members can enter it. The memorial ma only skirt the scared land. Now why is a memorial on public land only accessable to a cerntain popultion. Why are sites in NY and DC not treated the same way?

arial

flight path :

memorial site is here

quicktime movie talking about the desgin comp here, kinda sappy as one migh expect.

Discuss. or not as it suits you

i wouldnt be suprised at all if it was shot down. i remember at the time they had mentioned shooting one or two down. if i remember correctly after 911 a law was passed or something took place stating that the government had permission to shoot down planes if actions like this were taken by terrorists in the future.

i know it seems kinda messed up but were talking about the us government here. i dont believe that dubya would think twice about shooting down a plane if this happened again, i think hed do it in a heartbeat.

A good collection of articles:

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/flight93.htm

And some transcript I found:

Dick Cheney gives Bush the credit in Meet the Press:

"MR. RUSSERT: What's the most important decision you think he made during the course of the day?

"VICE PRES. CHENEY: Well, the--I suppose the toughest decision was this question of whether or not we would intercept incoming commercial aircraft.

"MR. RUSSERT: And you decided?

"VICE PRES. CHENEY: We decided to do it. We'd, in effect, put a flying combat air patrol up over the city; F-16s with an AWACS, which is an airborne radar system, and tanker support so they could stay up a long time...

"It doesn't do any good to put up a combat air patrol if you don't give them instructions to act, if, in fact, they feel it's appropriate.

"MR. RUSSERT: So if the United States government became aware that a hijacked commercial airline[r] was destined for the White House or the Capitol, we would take the plane down?

"VICE PRES. CHENEY: Yes. The president made the decision...that if the plane would not divert...as a last resort, our pilots were authorized to take them out. Now, people say, you know, that's a horrendous decision to make. Well, it is. You've got an airplane full of American citizens, civilians, captured by...terrorists, headed and are you going to, in fact, shoot it down, obviously, and kill all those Americans on board?

"...It's a presidential-level decision, and the president made, I think, exactly the right call in this case, to say, "I wished we'd had combat air patrol up over New York."

--NBC, 'Meet the Press' 16 September 2001

I doubt it, the fighter jets were way to disorganized and lost that morning to have done it.

not just that but the pres. gave the order after the plane went down.

or so they would have you think. we dont really know beyond a shadow of a doubt wen the pres did what. I dont thing he even knows what he did.

peraps peraps...

I'm not ruling out the possibility that it could have been shot down.

I just personally think that the US was too big a mess that morning to shoot the plane down.

If it wasn't shot down, well hooray for the passanger's bravery, and If it was shot down I certainly don't blame anyone, better than having it crash into a building killing even more.

regardless though R.I.P.

9/11 was over 3 years ago, it's time to move on. The government is still talking about it. It's sad that people died, but if we mourned everytime innocent people died, we would never stop. It's time to stop using this tragedy to further Bush's agenda.

Please let's focus on the future instead of one day 3 years ago.

rumsfeld recently made the freudian slip about the plane that was shot down.

it's probably safe to say that it was.

thing is, if we bother to uncover all that evidence..then for what?

i say let those people on that plane remain take charge heroes.

it was probably the only thing the government could really do to respond to that sort of crisis anyway.

all assuming of course, that the government didn't have anything to do with engineering the 9.11 attacks.

Those peoples fate was decided as soon as they boarded the plane, it doesnt matter if it was shot down or crashed... those people were going to die. IF the gov were to admit it shot down the plane..many would cry foul.. its best just to say RIP..

Interesting in the 9-11 commission report it states how the air traffic controllers and the pentagon and white house were all disoriented and how they would lose it on radar and didn't know what plane was where....

sounds like a bunch of horseshit to me...

There was not ONE mention of satellite surveillance..................

Originally posted by ODS-1@Jan 8 2005, 09:16 PM

9/11 was over 3 years ago, it's time to move on. The government is still talking about it. It's sad that people died, but if we mourned everytime innocent people died, we would never stop. It's time to stop using this tragedy to further Bush's agenda.

Quoted post

Those who forget the past are Condemned to repeat it.

I've been in the US for about 3 months and I am shocked by how little people care about the 9/11 attacks. I mean shit, if 3,000 of my countrymen died needlessly I would find it very difficult to forget.

The deaths of these people are the result of bad politics. It is time that people stopped using this tragedy to advance Bush's agenda, but it is also about time that people reflect on why this happened, and how it can be prevented in the future.

I'd rather have everyone believe that it went down fighting. After all, we already have 3 other planes full of complete fucking pussies who didn't stand up to some arabs with boxcutters. We've got to have some dignity.

I guess the idea according to the 9-11 commission report is that the first three crashes, in close succession with each other, did not meet resistance because noone was aware they were to become human missles. Flight 93 however, was an anomaly and took off late... and people on the flight were recieving calls on their cell phones from loved ones and authorities about how other planes had been used as missles. I guess then initiative was taken for the mutiny.

as far as i'm aware there is only one dude who was on the scene first becuz

he worked right by the crash..and he's been gagged by the fbi. some reporters

have tried to get info out of him, but he starts to act odd and refuses.

there is another lady who sat at a stop light in the town and had her car jolted

by the flight path of a small, white, unmarked military jet which blew right over

her car. there are others as well, but from what i've read that's about as far as it

goes without making assumptive leaps.

Originally posted by villain@Jan 9 2005, 01:03 AM

Interesting in the 9-11 commission report it states how the air traffic controllers and the pentagon and white house were all disoriented and how they would lose it on radar and didn't know what plane was where....

sounds like a bunch of horseshit to me...

There was not ONE mention of satellite surveillance..................

Quoted post

I saw on the history channel that the transponder switch (the thing that sends out signals so that ATC can tell where the plane is) was turned off.

Another thing that confuses me is that on the recording, the hijacker accidentally called air traffic control instead of the passenger intercom. What confuses me is that the hijacker told the passengers "We are going to turn around and go back to the airport". Why did he tell them this is he was plotting to take the plane down in New York?

Originally posted by GnomeToys@Jan 9 2005, 01:30 AM

I'd rather have everyone believe that it went down fighting. After all, we already have 3 other planes full of complete fucking pussies who didn't stand up to some arabs with boxcutters. We've got to have some dignity.

Quoted post

gah! i still don't really believe it was boxcutters. ok, there had to be, on each flight...atleast one or two people willing to fight for their lives.....unless confronted with fully auto weapons....and then...well, then i'd be scared, too....but fucking boxcutters...what the fuck ever.

Yeah seems kinda odd that they would know how to turn the transponders off but accidentally call ATC. Good point. I do believe they said that they were going back to the airport so that there wouldn't be a mutiny.

Also supposedly these guys did really poorly at flight school and what regular civilian flight school teaches anyone to fly boeing 747s and 757s? Don't you have to be trained by an airline for that kind of stuff? I mean most flight schools you are flying smaller, much smaller and most likely very different crafts.

There are conspiracy theories that the planes were controlled remotely. And also the owner of this flight school is a sketchy character as well. There is no way that the FBI is not going to notice many arab men, some who are known terrorists, almost all with known terrorist connections, training at flight schools. This is evinced by the Phoenix memo which has pretty well been buried.They smothered that guy. There is also this crazy book :

http://www.madcowprod.com/

I guess it's the most detailed account of the whole training in florida flight schools conspiracy theory thing (which in sum is a CIA plot)...

I dunno so much of this crap doesn't add up. And Bush doens't add up period.

That's the interesting part. There are flight schools that train people in larger planes. There are a lot of them. The reason is because the airlines don't pay for the pilot's training. They have to pay for all of there training themselves before they can even APPLY to get a job as an airline pilot. Most of these schools that teach people to fly 747s and such do it in a simulator.

Now about the transponder switch, who knows where they learned how to do that. But I can see how they could call atc and not the passengers. Have you seen how many buttons those things have?

if you can get your self to the point of hijacking a plane, knowing there is a transponder switch isnt a big leap, and finding it cant be that heard given the right searching, asking before hand, or even threatening a pilot with penis decapitation might get you the info.