DVD Wars

5 years ago I read an article from 2600, the hacker quarterly, about how the MPAA was trying to take control of the DVD format by issueing different formats for different studios that were owned by companies that also owned DVD manufacterers. For instance, studios that are owned by Sony would only put out their films on the format that Sony supports, while studios owned by the people that own Toshiba (Warner Bros., etc) would only put out movies on the Toshiba format. This is what I read 5 years ago:

http://www.2600.com/news/0130-flyer/flyer.html

This is what I read today:

Lions Gate to use Blu-Ray DVD format

Thursday, August 18, 2005; Posted: 10:49 a.m. EDT (14:49 GMT)

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Lions Gate Entertainment Corp. said Wednesday it will release movies and other content on the high definition Blu-Ray disc format when that technology launches next year.

The studio joins Sony Pictures, Twentieth Century Fox and The Walt Disney Co. as supporters of one of two next generation DVD formats vying to replace standard DVDs.

Both formats promise increased storage capacity and movie resolution superior enough to get top performance from high-definition television sets. And both would contain stronger anti-piracy protection, a key factor in the studios' haste to adopt a new format.

Supporters of the rival format, HD-DVD, include Warner Bros., Paramount Pictures and Universal Studios.

Blu-Ray was developed by Sony Corp., Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., which makes the Panasonic brand, and Philips Electronics NV. HD-DVD was developed by electronics makers Toshiba Corp. and NEC Corp.

HD-DVD players and films are expected to be available by the end of the year. Blu-Ray players and films are expected to be available in North America sometime next year.

Studios and consumer electronics makers are hoping to avoid a format war that would leave consumers confused and unwilling to upgrade to the new equipment needed to play high definition discs. Such a war ensued when the competing Betamax and VHS videocassette formats were introduced, and it was blamed for slowing consumer acceptance of videocassette recorders.

Industry officials are pushing this time for both sides to reach a compromise.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/08/18/nextgen...d.ap/index.html

5 years ago 2600 put out the warning, still it will happen.

This is going to wreak havoc on the DVD industry for a while, since consumers are going to most likely sit out till a winner is decided, but I'm thinking blu-ray has already won this dispute since it will be shipped with the PS3.

I know, this is seriously fucked. I've become quite an aficionado lately of the home theater experience and have been holding out on buying a nice big screen HDTV until the next generation DVDs come out (current DVDs look like shit on HDTVs now, all compressed and artifact-ridden), and now this shit is gonna happen and I'm not gonna know what the fuck to get. So far I'm leaning towards Blu-Ray cause it seems superior tech-wise, but I'm wary of Sony's usual dickery about their propietary formats. Also, Betamax cassettes were superior to VHS, and look where those ended up.

Fuck DVD's. They're garbage. Word the fuck up. if you handle them with any less regard as you would plutonium they get scratched and are useless. I litterally have never rented one that wasn't so fucked that I couldn't watch it and too often even if I buy a brand new one it doesn't even play in my shit or is already scratched just from coming loose and bouncing around in it's case during shipping before it ever reached the store. I have never had this problem with VHS, in fact I still have VHS tapes and cassette tapes that are well over 10 years old that still work perfectly fine and I have yet to have a DVD or CD last more than a couple years and I actually take care of my shit too and make an effort to keep them in their case and not to leave the shit laying around to get scratched. Infact when I buy a CD (since you can't even get cassetes anymore) I have to buy blank tapes and record them the first time I listen to them before they get all fucked up (and sometimes they're already fucked up and jump around the first time listening).

And is there really that much of a difference in the picture between a DVD and VHS? I for one can't notice any difference.

DVD's and CD's are a waist of money. These companies lie and say they're so superior and what not so they can make money off peoples stupidity.

And now we gotta go out and buy mad different types of DVD players to have ONE that will play the fucking movie!?!?

Fuck DVD's and CD's. :tongue:

What about the extras only available on DVD? the commentary! oh the commentary!

Fuck dvds, cds are cool, because you can burn shit onto them. And skip tracks and shit. Cassettes you have rewind and fast forward. I still have one of those by the way. I still be knocking my shit.

Sorry, nothing to say. I don't even own a TV.

Actually, Mams, I used the VHS vs. Betamax arguement in a discussion completely unrelated to this one and learned that many video professionals use Betamax still. Apparently there are some very high-end Betamax machines still being produced for this niche market.

And DVDs are very much superior to cassettes in both picture and sound quality. What's disturbing about this story is not which tech are we going to choose, but the fact that we have to choose a tech. Fuck these corporate bastards taking advantage of our consumer whorism.

Originally posted by fermentor666@Aug 19 2005, 01:15 AM

Actually, Mams, I used the VHS vs. Betamax arguement in a discussion completely unrelated to this one and learned that many video professionals use Betamax still. Apparently there are some very high-end Betamax machines still being produced for this niche market.

wrong.

that's not the case at all.

'Betamax' as a format is dead. 'Betacam' is alive for the moment.

Let me give you the timeline;

First came 'betacam' tapes and player/recorders.

They were used by news people to replace the extremely

large and junky '3/4 (inch) tape also known as U-Matic.

U-Matic made by far the best graffiti stickers on the planet.

A home version of betacam was introduced called 'betamax'. It's dead.

Betacam got updated to 'BetacamSP' and it's currently the analog tape

standard. Sony introduced 'Digital Betacam' and it's the digital delivery

standard today untill the broadcasters can agree on a set format for HD.

There's a Sony HDCAM tape, but with the intoduction of MiniDV, there's

a ton of new formats trying to get to the top. I deal with this daily.

^ Dead

^ soon to be dead, but still hanging in there

^ current standard.

^ the HD future standard (that I'm betting on)

Right, but it's still the same technology as Betamax in a sense, right? That's what I meant.

not really. You're right that it sort of still exists in a different format, but it's never called betamax.

let me illustrate with pictures.

^ betamax

^ betacam

^ digital betacam

Right, Rummypunch explained it. The whole Beta-tech IS used today still in the professional industry, but that's techincally a niche market. What I meant to say is that even if the product quality was better, that didn't mean widespread user adoption over the lower-quality format.

Yeah, I got that, I was just throwing it out there as a sidefact, "the more you know..." that sort of thing.

and now we all know more! And knowing is half the battle!

mid-life crisis? transformers AND GI Joe? yikes!

and I dont know if the broadcast market is really 'niche' to companies like sony and panasonic.

Firugre a digital betacam recorder costs $80G and a 60 miute tape costs $100.

You have to sell a lot of $250 vcrs to make up for it.

I wouldn't call it a niche market, more a specialty market.

just like how Chrysler owns Mercedes

Yeah, "specialty market" is the correct term. Just like pro software, which costs a shitload cause they have to sell to few people.

DVD won't go the way of specialty market, I'm just worried that the mainstream consumer is so ignorant at this point that they will invest in both forms of the technology and just feed the beast more and more. What's next, TV's that are made specifically for the stations owned by the FOX corporation?

Hopefully not. But I think we are seeing more variety as technology advances.

And SF1 speaketh the truth.

And I would say that is the answer but they are so damn expensive.

Yeah, renting DVDs sucks because a lot of time they are scratched. But if you're leaving your DVDs laying around like drink coasters then no wonder they are gonna get scratched. Take care of your shit and it won't fall to pieces. And VHS, especially old VHS, becomes grainy and washed up over time. Rent a movie from the 1980's and then watch the DVD version and you will be able to tell the difference. For about 2 years in high school I watched at least one movie a day, back when all that was available was VHS (and laserdisc but I never had that). Many times, the movie I rented was unwatchable, the tracking would go nuts or the sound would cut out or I would just get a lot of static. I remember I rented Thelma and Louise and right at the end when they are facing those dozens of cops and decide to drive off the cliff, the tape started cutting out sound and making the picture jump all over the place. Totally ruined it.

I dunno, I have CDs that are literally missing chunks of the reflective side and they're still working pretty well. I don't exactly treat my CDs with the utmost care, yet pretty much all of them are still in fine working condition.

More important than the quality of the CD is the quality of the player. A shitty player will skip on the tiniest of cracks, a solid one with a powerful laser will read discs that look completely shot to shit.

As for difference in quality between VHS and DVD, are you fucking KIDDING me? DVD quality is light years beyond VHS, I almost can't even watch VHS movies anymore cause the quality (both audio and video) bothers me so much.

*Oh, and when I was in college (2000), this dude in my ID class came up with and built prototypes of those CD d_skin thingies. I told him it was fucking insane and that he should look into patenting it. I wonder if he has anything to do with d_skin, or if he missed the boat. They look EXACTLY the same.

Five years ago, I said blu-ray was gonna win. And now I'm certain because they've got three big studios (all this time I thought it was just *Disney), and like Villain said, the PS3.

As for the whole DVD scratching thing - that is because you're white. I'd say 75% of white people I know have no idea how to take care of CDs and DVDs. That's why I don't lend them that shit.

Oh trust me, I take good care of my shit. Sometimes I think it must be the laser scratching them or something! lol

And most definately DVD quality is better than VHS quality.... I just don't like the whole scratching thing. Sure a better player helps... but the things still get scratched upon contact with open air.

However they make video games they should do with all CDs/DVDs because those things can have gouges in them and still work fine. I think they have a protective coating built in on them. They only cost pennies to make... why god? WHY?

Yeah I wonder if that dude got anything off the d_skins. I know that I've come up with ideas, and I've known people to come up with ideas... then like a year or two down the road, there it is on the market. Are there industrial spies all around us?

I've still got some concepts I'd like patented but I don't trust those commercials... I heard they steal your shit. I suppose I could mail it to myself.

I had problems with some scratched DVDs but they were the fault of drunk motherfuckers not handling them properly and leaving them out of cases. If you pick the thing up by the edges or with a finger through the center hole and keep it in the case it will almost never get fucked up.

And whoever was saying something about being able to burn stuff on CDs... DVD burners aren't exactly expensive anymore, and neither are the blank discs.

so far i've had no problems with scratches on DVD

my CDs were another story until about three years ago, when i learned that you couldn't resell em if they were scratched.

i don't think this is a white people thing either. for me it was about my age.

anyway, i was reading this whole format war story in newsweek.

i am kinda surprised by the lack of mainstream media coverage this is getting, considering that this IS maintream media.

i can't explain the news.

it's craxy how much control corporations have now, they are going to be in a position to start dictating what kind of machines people have to buy in order to view thier movies. they had to branch beyond the theater, obviously, and i can only assume they will use this to their advantgae, cornering the market on ceertain types of players so you not only have to rent what they say, but buy the electronics they say as well. and i'm sure they'll get a big kickback out of it.

funny too, how the FCC and the gov't won't touch this with a ten foot pole. all they'd have to do is pass a couple laws forcing these companies to form a consensus, and they won't do it.

and yes fermentor., i can only assume that is what's coming next, specialty TVs for viewing certain programming.

the consumer is constantly demanding better home entertainment, and the market is responding with all the characteristic viciousness and fervor

I take care of my cds.... I never touch the bottoms. It doesn't matter.... I'd be lucky to have a CD go a whole year without a scratch... and some of my oldest CDs look like I was smoothing cement with them. Some of these players with their feed loading, sliding onto platters and whatnot doesn't help either. It's like they WANT you to scratch your CDs.

I'm guessing that the FCC believes that the market will regulate itself in this matter.... which I suppose it ultimately will. If the PS3 is shipping with blu-ray, which is what i'm hearing, then that's going to take a huge bite out of the competition. Most companies want as big of an audience as possible, so I don't see why they would waste efforts dividing markets and making a whole lot of specialty products.

music is branching into many different formats, and even with all the illegal downloading, the industry is pushing on.

profit is their bottom line

if the players generate enough sales to justify an alternate format, that'll be that.

another thing, it doesn't only matter what happens in the u.s.

these companies are global.

they could probably push one format hard in one country if it was failing in another.

who knows.

it's dumb though.

Originally posted by symbols@Aug 23 2005, 12:02 PM

music is branching into many different formats, and even with all the illegal downloading, the industry is pushing on.

 

profit is their bottom line

if the players generate enough sales to justify an alternate format, that'll be that.

another thing, it doesn't only matter what happens in the u.s.

these companies are global.

they could probably push one format hard in one country if it was failing in another.

 

who knows.

it's dumb though.

Quoted post

Hmm... I suppose you are right. Then again it may not matter so much in the future since probably most everything will be available for download in a digital format, then converted to the hard copy media of your choice.

Originally posted by symbols@Aug 23 2005, 12:32 PM

 

anyway, i was reading this whole format war story in newsweek.

i am kinda surprised by the lack of mainstream media coverage this is getting, considering that this IS maintream media.

i can't explain the news.

 

it's craxy how much control corporations have now, they are going to be in a position to start dictating what kind of machines people have to buy in order to view thier movies. they had to branch beyond the theater, obviously, and i can only assume they will use this to their advantgae, cornering the market on ceertain types of players so you not only have to rent what they say, but buy the electronics they say as well. and i'm sure they'll get a big kickback out of it.

 

Quoted post

The most surprising thing is that they have been planning this for FIVE YEARS, and it's only now starting to get media coverage albeit a very small amount. This reeks of DIVX, not the file format but the product that was launched a few years back where you bought a DVD and would have to pay for individual viewings or whatever. It failed horribly and most people wouldn't even know anything about DIVX.

I would rather see the DVD format die then have this become the norm. Once that happens, it will be impossible to reverse and it will only encourage these corporate fatcats to run with the idea. On top of society of being blatently lemming-like and blindly consuming goods, which is bad enough, we will never be able move back from that step.

That the PS3 is shipping with this technology makes me afraid that this multi-format, studio-exclusive deal is the future. You're going to have literally millions of people buying this thing not only for games but for movies (I use my PS2 to play DVDs) and they will be really fucking surprised when the newly re-released Matrix trilogy won't play on their PS3 because it was released by Warner Brothers. And I pray that they won't be too stupid and worthless enough to be unable to fight that nagging impulse shopper in the back of their head. It could even get to the point where having multiple DVD players is seen as a status symbol. It's already become respectable to be a stupid whore thanks to Paris Hilton and MTV.

The people will not stand for it! Viva la resistance!

remember the whole dvd-rw VS dvd+rw war? Well people just started making players that played both formats because it was annoying the shit out of people at the time (myself included). I'm sure some wise ass will make a dual format drive to cool the jets of the sparring titans.

Assuming they won't get sued for it.

Originally posted by fermentor666@Aug 25 2005, 02:57 PM

Assuming they won't get sued for it.

Quoted post

As long as they change the product enough to not violate patent protections... welcome to america....