Dutch filmmaker's killer

"The terrorist attack on Theo van Gogh has unleashed feelings of great fear and insecurity in [Dutch] society", presiding Judge Udo Willem Bentinck said.

Van Gogh, well known for his scathing criticism of Islam and the multicultural society, was shot and stabbed in broad daylight as he cycled the streets of Amsterdam on 2 November 2004.

His murder stoked ethnic tensions in the Netherlands and sparked a wave of reprisal attacks mainly directed at the Muslim community.

"There is only one fitting punishment in this case and that is a life sentence. You are thus sentenced to life in prison," the judge told Bouyeri.

A life sentence carries no possibility of parole in the Netherlands.

Beliefs

Bouyeri nodded after the verdict was read out.

He shook hands with his lawyer and left the courtroom without looking in the direction of van Gogh's family members who were also present in the Amsterdam high-security court.

During the trial two weeks ago, Bouyeri told the court that he killed van Gogh out of his beliefs.

He insisted that "the law compels me to chop off the head of anyone who insults Allah and the prophet" and asked for the maximum sentence.

"I can assure you that if I am ever freed, I will do exactly the same," he vowed.

The court painted Bouyeri as someone with "radical beliefs, and obsession with violence and totalitarian views".

Outrage

The 27-year-old was convicted of murdering the filmmaker and obstructing the work of liberal lawmaker Ayaan Hirsi Ali and threatening her with a terrorist act, both crimes committed with a terrorist aim, according to the court.

He was also convicted of the attempted murder of several police officers and bystanders and illegal possession of firearms.

Van Gogh, a distant relative of 19th century painter Vincent van Gogh, together with Hirsi Ali had made a short film called Submission, linking Islam to the abuse of women, which caused outrage in the Dutch Muslim community.

After van Gogh's murder, Hirsi Ali went into hiding for three months because a letter threatening her and other politicians was found on the filmmaker's body.

"The defendant has deliberately tried to instil fear in the Dutch population," the court said in its ruling.

"The killing was carried out in a gruesome way in a busy street, during rush hour, the victim was a celebrity. Add to that the letter left on the scene containing threats not only to Hirsi Ali but to the Netherlands as a whole."

Other accusations

The prosecution had demanded that Bouyeri be stripped of his right to vote or to stand for election, but the court denied the request arguing that since the defendant clearly rejected democracy it was unlikely that he would ever exercise these rights.

Even though prosecutors have said that Bouyeri was "a leading figure" in a "terrorist organisation" known as the Hofstad group, he has not yet been charged for that because of a lack of evidence.

The Dutch national prosecutor's office is expected to decide soon if Bouyeri will be separately prosecuted for membership of a terrorist organisation.

They have already charged 15 other people with being members of the Hofstad group.

it was really sad that the director was murdered

and in such a peaceful country no less

fanatics make me ill

disgusting stinking pile of shit in the name of your god

Again its another one of those make you think moments. Van Gogh was outspoken,but to be shot and then the killer to try and cut his head off.Where did the teachings of allah say that then? Religion,whatever the religion,should never be used as a tool or an excuse,for acts of radicalism

I honestly beleive that these people doing these terrible things are just looking for a reason to kill people, just like a jeffrey dahmer or someone like that....It's unbeleivable, to try to cut someones head off in the street and think that somehow this is an act that any religion would condone. It's funny though, while the westen media portrays this stuff on TV, people get all upset when it happens...What do we expect from ourselves? This is the world that we live in. Its like the one who beats his kids everyday and when his kids get old enough they put an ass whoopin on him.....what did he expect...?? I beleive that if you want to cut this stuff out, then you have to base your society around cutting this negative imagery out too. But the kicker is , that when a man drinks a 12 pack of BUD and goes home and beats his wife , nobody blames Budweiser, they blame the guy, But the fact that his behind was WRECKED was a huge contributing factor to beating his wife. Don't get me wrong, He should definately be held accountable for his actions, but from the standpoint of how to prevent this type of thing from happening....first off, we need to be opposed to this type of thing, and not amusing ourselves with it on TV.

Originally posted by Dawood@Jul 27 2005, 06:36 PM

I honestly beleive that these people doing these terrible things are just looking for a reason to kill people, just like a jeffrey dahmer or someone like that....It's unbeleivable, to try to cut someones head off in the street and think that somehow this is an act that any religion would condone. It's funny though, while the westen media portrays this stuff on TV, people get all upset when it happens...What do we expect from ourselves? This is the world that we live in. Its like the one who beats his kids everyday and when his kids get old enough they put an ass whoopin on him.....what did he expect...?? I beleive that if you want to cut this stuff out, then you have to base your society around cutting this negative imagery out too. But the kicker is , that when a man drinks a 12 pack of BUD and goes home and beats his wife , nobody blames Budweiser, they blame the guy, But the fact that his behind was WRECKED was a huge contributing factor to beating his wife. Don't get me wrong, He should definately be held accountable for his actions, but from the standpoint of how to prevent this type of thing from happening....first off, we need to be opposed to this type of thing, and not amusing ourselves with it on TV.

Quoted post

You gotta be kidding me. So you want a ban on all violent imagry? That's cool. Considering that i'm pretty sure this guy didn't watch some horror/action movie and go, "Holy shit thats a good idea, cutting his head off in the middle of the street" plzzz, if dude wanted to kill the guy, he was going to do it regardless of what he saw on T.V the night before, or what he heard on the radio.

This type of shit makes me laugh, are you one of those guys who thinks that Mariyln Manson was the reason for things like Columbine?

Let's censor everything, and while were at it, no more thinking, it's too dangerous.

Back on topic, good, this guy murdered someone, and for no reason.

I guess you must be one of those guys who dont' think drugs cause drug problems either.......

Of course nobody is going to ban violent imagery, except in ones own space. I don't even own a tv....because of all the craziness on tv that I don't want to infect my kids with, but still, take some responsibility too, If it was a movie and not real life you would pay to sit and watch that guy cut off the film makers head, but since it really happened , here you are complaining about it on 12oz. we all buy into it....

admit it, Our culture is sex , violence and drugs , and you love it until it happens to you......

^yet another person who is believing only what they want to believe

Ha , Ha, thats a funny statement symbols, How Ironic that you would say that. I beleive only what I want to beleive. Tell me what I'm supposed to beleive.....

what exactly is the "correct" beleif?

Because obviously , I have it all wrong and you got it all figured out so put me on chief!

Too bad Van Gogh wasn't armed. Then maybe he might have survived the attack, and his attacker would be in jail or in a graveyard.

I think Van Gogh had a little bit of the responsibility though. He deliberately makes a film that infuriates fundamentalist Muslims, then goes strolling around like he hasn't a care in the world---no bodyguard, no gun, apparently no sense of self-preservation whatsoever. What, he never heard of Salman Rushdie?

Originally posted by Dawood@Jul 28 2005, 11:04 PM

Ha , Ha, thats a funny statement symbols, How Ironic that you would say that. I beleive only what I want to beleive. Tell me what I'm supposed to beleive.....

 

what exactly is the "correct" beleif?

 

Because obviously , I have it all wrong and you got it all figured out so put me on chief!

Quoted post

The funny thing about this statement is, you push your religious beliefs on us any chance you get, saying how any other belief's are wrong, but then you say this. lol.

Originally posted by Dawood@Jul 29 2005, 12:04 AM

Ha , Ha, thats a funny statement symbols, How Ironic that you would say that. I beleive only what I want to beleive. Tell me what I'm supposed to beleive.....

 

what exactly is the "correct" beleif?

 

Because obviously , I have it all wrong and you got it all figured out so put me on chief!

Quoted post

with all the scripture you post and all the opinions you have

how many times have i said you were wrong?

not many.

i definitely never said your religious beliefs were incorrect

(although if you want, we can get into a discussion on what a load of crap organized religion is)

believing what you want means you ignore the obvious facts

such as: this guy, who is clearly deranged, thought he was doing something good in the name of god.

denying that is just silly, even if you don't agree with what he did

that would be like denying the crusades ever happened because

people don't do stuff like that in the name of religion

your sarcasm is funny

getting frustrated with me?

hahahaa

people with strong religious beliefs are usually pretty narrow minded

as it seems you are.

too each his own

ILOTSMYBRAIN.........hint , hint , sarcasm...

Symbols, sure we can get into an organized religion discussion, no problem, Although the word religion doesnt describe Islam very well, Islam is not really a religion.

When I think of religion , I think of catholics and hindus.

Islam is a prescribed way of life. It's a little different than a religion, (just acts of worship).

anyway, by all means feel free to discuss organized religion and why you feel it is a load of crap. I think religion is a load of crap too.

Islam is guidance.

AMEEN!!! Couldn't have said it better myself ahkee.

Re: Dutch filmmaker's killer

organized religion

...i agree, religion is nothing more, nothing less than a "mindstate"...

ANY religion that exspects some "deeds" of it's believers...is a cult...

i couldn't care less about what people believe...as long it's doesn't interfear MY goals in life...

Live and let Live... therere's always room to SPEAK your opinion...instead of killing the spoken word by stabbing a blade in someone's hearth...

so islam is closer to buddhism?

Re: Dutch filmmaker's killer

Too bad Van Gogh wasn't armed. Then maybe he might have survived the attack, and his attacker would be in jail or in a graveyard.

 

I think Van Gogh had a little bit of the responsibility though. He deliberately makes a film that infuriates fundamentalist Muslims, then goes strolling around like he hasn't a care in the world---no bodyguard, no gun, apparently no sense of self-preservation whatsoever. What, he never heard of Salman Rushdie?

The answer to everything isn't "Oh, he should've had a weapon", hillbilly. The Netherlands is a generally peaceful country where you can say things without people getting worked up. It's not every day that this kind of stuff happens, it's an extremely rare occurance in comparison to most other countries.

Re: Dutch filmmaker's killer

so islam is closer to buddhism?

not at all. Islam is not like any other religion. Islam is a unique way of life.

Not really even a religion (as posted above) but, a way of life. It directs us toward

correct beleif concerning our creator. (ex. what God is...and what God is not) We know what God is by what he tells us he is in his book, we also know what God is'nt. If God never revealed any guidance to mankind then , he wouldn't expect anything from us, but since he revealed scriptures and sent messengers, the proof has been established and the excuses are cut off. We (as humans) are now obligated to sincerely seek the truth. And since God is the most Just, he would never do an injustice toward any of his creation and misguide someone who wanted the guidance and sought it sincerely.

sorry, that was off topic, but I just wanted to answer the question.

Also, I read the original story again and I wanted to add something that I missed before.

the killer insisted that "the law compels me to chop off the head of anyone who insults Allah and the prophet" and asked for the maximum sentence.

"I can assure you that if I am ever freed, I will do exactly the same," he vowed

this is a man who doesn't understand Islam. Islam (as I said up top) is a complete way of life, a complete system that covers spirituality, politics, social etiquettes and laws, right, wrong and all of the variations in between. In Islam there is such a thing as capitol punishment , yes, just like here in America where the laws are man made democratic laws there is capitol punishment for some crimes that carry that punishment.

Well, in America do the common civilian citizens grab up criminals and execute them on the street with no trial, no hearings, nothing? Just snatch him off the corner and stab him up..Doesn't that sound crazy? well it is, because According to Islamic law , It is not permissable for people to be "vigilantes" taking the law into their own hands...especially in non muslim countries where the laws have nothing to do with the Quran. This is a point that a lot of these Al Qaida people and these modern day "Islamic" terrorists overlook. That being a renegade and killing hostages on TV is not a good thing (not to mention it's bad PR for them and the rest of the muslims) That said, I still think this guy Theo van Gogh is a criminal and talking against the prophet Muhammad is a crime, but if your in the netherlands you have no authority to shoot or stab him in the streets and you are sure not

" compelled to chop off the head of anyone who insults Allah and the prophet"

especially not in the netherlands and especially since he is not any type of government official who has that authority,people need to know that Islam is not a barbaric way of life

If Theo van Gogh had said what he said in a muslim country , under muslim rulership and the ruler of that land tried him, sentenced him and killed him, then so be it, but to hunt him down on the streets and kill him is a bad representation of Islam (even if some muslims think he deserved it, it still should be done right.) You have to go through the front door and not the side window if you want the right results.