Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum...
    You are currently logged out and viewing our forum as a guest which only allows limited access to our discussions, photos and other forum features. If you are a 12ozProphet Member please login to get the full experience.

    If you are not a 12ozProphet Member, please take a moment to register to gain full access to our website and all of its features. As a 12ozProphet Member you will be able to post comments, start discussions, communicate privately with other members and access members-only content. Registration is fast, simple and free, so join today and be a part of the largest and longest running Graffiti, Art, Style & Culture forum online.

    Please note, if you are a 12ozProphet Member and are locked out of your account, you can recover your account using the 'lost password' link in the login form. If you no longer have access to the email you registered with, please email us at [email protected] and we'll help you recover your account. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum (and don't forget to follow @12ozprophet in Instagram)!

Duffy Littlejohn OnLine

Discussion in 'Metal Heads' started by KaBar, Mar 18, 2002.

  1. KaBar

    KaBar Senior Member

    Joined: Oct 9, 2001 Messages: 1,397 Likes Received: 28
    I got this off the Trainhopping.com listserve. Duffy Littlejohn's "Hopping Freight Trains in America" is available online at

    http://genepoollifeguard.org/trainhopping

    and also at

    http://briefcase.yahoo.com/ken_flicht

    The genepoollifeguard people are part of an anarchist/ punk network called CrimethInc.com (I think this stands for "criminal ethics.com) who basically just do whatever they want, whenever they want. They steal, they "sneak into" events of various natures, dumpster dive for food, etc. These folks are not without any morals or ethics, but their ethics and morals do not extend to the larger culture. I must say that I have a grudging respect for their tenacity, but let's see how they do once they hit prison. I suspect that faced with a "fuck, fight or hold the light" situation in the joint, they will wind up as somebody's bitch. Of course, they can't imagine themselves ever facing this situation. They have "soldidarity with the oppressed" and "respect for all peoples of color." LOL. Let's see if they still have it after sucking thirty cocks of color, LOL. Or getting turned out to three or four rap-singin' monsters in their cell, for a couple of cigarettes. All I can say is YOU BREAK THE LAWS OF THE STATE AT TREMENDOUS RISK. The necessity of the force of the State becomes obvious the first time you meet a girl who has been kidnapped and gang raped. After something like that, your perception of "anarchy" is that gang rapists need to be stood up in front of a wall and summarilly executed. And that you ain't an anarchist, after all.

    Nevertheless, I think it's cool that Littlejohn's book is online. I bet he ain't too happy about it, however, since it cuts into his profits.
     
  2. BucketHead

    BucketHead Member

    Joined: Jun 1, 2000 Messages: 563 Likes Received: 0
    Whoa... your loc'd to the brizaaain kabar.. i dont think id like to run into you in a dark alley.
     
  3. kinkosnerd

    kinkosnerd Junior Member

    Joined: Nov 9, 2001 Messages: 128 Likes Received: 1
    you sound a bit jaded on this one kabar.. nothing wrong with believing in equality.. while prision may make some people change their minds about stuff, not everyone comes out with a race based twist. Your quote of "getting turned out to three or four rap-singin' monsters in their cell, for a couple of cigarettes" seems like it can go both ways with big white bastards just as well as it can black guys..
    dont get pissed because these kids have hope is what im trying to get across more than anything.
     
  4. im not witty

    im not witty Guest

    again kabaar you have done me a great sevice. providing a interesting link that ive been searching for for a long time, and commented on crimethinc which i was going to ask your opinion on since hearing about your early days as a idealistic anarchist.

    your posts are never ending sources of interest and im sure you could put together an interesting and well-selling book if you're into that sort of thing.
     
  5. KaBar

    KaBar Senior Member

    Joined: Oct 9, 2001 Messages: 1,397 Likes Received: 28
    Kinkosnerd---You're right, I do sound a little jaded, or more than a little. One of my best friends in high school was a dope dealer after he graduated. He considered it a career choice. He was clever and extremely lucky, and both times he got busted he was able to buy his way out of it. Both times, it was local cops or Sheriffs, in smaller towns, and he had the cash to do it. Both times, the local cops took his dope, as well as his money. Eventually, the IRS got him, and he wound up like he started--broke.
    However, we had another friend who was not quite as smart or as lucky. He got set up by his girlfriend's sister. She got arrested with a half pound, and the narcotics officers terrorized her. They told her unless she handed them a cocaine dealer they would see that she got the maximum sentence. She handed them "Andy." He was 26, tall, thin, blonde hair, blue eyes. He was no wimp, but he also wasn't a thug. It was a complete set-up. Andy didn't even use coke. The police waited until the drugs and money changed hands and then they busted Andy. The kid walked. Andy got five years and served 2-1/2 in Texas prisons. He was brutalized--gang raped anally, then forced to become the sexual partner of a big, tough, black inmate to get protection from his friends. If he did anything to displease the jocker, the guy would force him to turn tricks--sex with other inmates for money, or cigarettes, or whatever. One time, the jocker "lost" Andy in a card game to another inmate. The jocker and all his pals delighted in rubbing Andy's nose in the fact that he was white, and they were black, and they "owned" him.
    After Andy got out on the first bit, he couldn't get a job. He figured, "What the hell--I've got the name as a coke dealer, might as well have the game." He started dealing coke for real. He made quite a bit of money, and had all the trappings of a dealer--flashy clothes, money, cars, etc.
    The second time he got busted, he got ten years, and served five, this time in a Federal penitentiary. A little wiser this time, and by this time a virulent racist, he had the good sense to immediately get in with a white prison group. They were racist monsters, but he did not disagree with them. He still wound up partnered to a bigger, stronger inmate, but this time he at least had the option to say no.
    The last time I saw him was 1990.
    The gentle, principled, liberal kid I knew in high school was covered in prison tats. He is the most hate-filled white racist I have ever met. He is, probably, the only man I've ever known personally who is capable of killing someone just because of the color of his skin, and the only man I know who actually believes in white supremacy. One of these days he'll probably turn up on an FBI "Most Wanted" poster.
    Andy has a girlfriend, and a life, such as it is. But the experience of being imprisoned turned him into a white racist monster.
    These days, rap music is adopted by just as many whites as blacks. Formerly "black" lingo, styles of dress, mannerisms like throwing gang signs and all that other bullshit are adopted by millions of young white kids, as well as young black kids. Insomuch as it encourages people to think maybe they are a bad ass gangsta, it is an evil, harmful, antisocial element in society. A choice to break a felony law is a choice to be submerged in the horror I just described above. Every word is the gospel truth. A man who wants to be a criminal is a man who is ASKING to be gang raped, mistreated, beaten, stabbed and maybe murdered. It is a horror unknown in America anywhere else but prison.
    I'm sure there are a few young men, maybe power lifters or major criminals, who survive prison okay. But for the average white, suburban kid it means becoming somebody's bitch. There's no way to sugar coat that, Kinkosnerd. It's horrifying, but it's THE TRUTH.
    Jail is not quite as bad as prison, but I knew a young Marine that went UA (AWOL) in New York and got arrested and detained at The Tombs for three weeks until the Marines could come get him. Same story as above--gang raped every night for three weeks. He went from our unit straight to the psychiatric unit at Mainside Naval Hospital.
    A 18-year-old son of one of my friends got busted for car-jacking a lady. He used a PELLET PISTOL, not a real gun. About two weeks after he got to the lock-up in Fort Bend county (south of Houston) he got beaten up and got his arm broken. It was broken by having it bent behind his back. What does that tell you?
    In prison, your skin is your uniform. And whites are the victimized minority. Sorry if it offends you, but that's just the way it is. Personally, I go to great lengths to avoid breaking the law. I advise everyone else to do the same.
     
  6. Secs Oner

    Secs Oner Senior Member

    Joined: May 17, 2000 Messages: 1,111 Likes Received: 0
    "I advise everyone else to do the same."


    probably not the best place to be preaching that....
     
  7. KaBar

    KaBar Senior Member

    Joined: Oct 9, 2001 Messages: 1,397 Likes Received: 28
    Can you think of a reasonable alternative? Writing graff is illegal, but not in the same category as dealing dope or , like my idiot-child young friend, car-jacking people. (My first thought was, "Wow, lucky she didn't have a pistol--he might be dead.") People who choose to break the law deliberately (trainhoppers, graff writers, etc.) need to know the law, so they know what law they are actually violating. Everybody knows stealing is illegal. But under certain circumstances, if you know the law, you might be able to make a defense against the charges of trespassing, or vandalism, or whatever. Also, if you know the law, and the penalties, you can make a better determination of whether or not the risk you are taking is worth the reward you are getting. Maybe if you are a talented and well-known writer, it's worth it. But if you are a no-talent, inept writer like myself, it might not be worth it.
    Still, in the final analysis, with the odds of being caught carefully weighed, one is choosing to risk being caught and punished.
    How wise is that? Every time I jump a train, I think about that.
     
  8. kinkosnerd

    kinkosnerd Junior Member

    Joined: Nov 9, 2001 Messages: 128 Likes Received: 1
    I see where youre coming from kabar. I often times think that this whole "white minority" in prison is a harsh curve on our countries harsh past. I know that blaming the past on the present isnt exactly productive, nor does it show any answers, but I can feel the pain of a slave husband who had the possibility of not only getting his ass raped, but his wifes ass and then his childrens asses as well. While times are alot (but still not totally) different now, I can easily see prison as the "proving ground" for alot of this kind of shit.. Where history gets sorted out in one way or another. While it may have made your buddy a big racist and all that, imagine how many times a black guy gets a bad deal, wether its in the courts, or just on the street, and they have to keep on going, dealing with life as it comes.. I agree with you on the thug culture thing. I think that its a load of shit, and its pretty counterproductive, while music is one of the common grounds that crosses the boards on the thug level it is not a deciding factor on being a fucking idiot, I think that education pretty well decides that.. and i dont necessarily mean the kind you get in school, but the kind that keeps us alive, this is good, this is bad, this will result in this, etc.. with out that we are fucked..
    Who knows where all this went, its a fresh and early tuesday at work and Im just getting to the part of the day where clarity works its way out.
     
  9. KaBar

    KaBar Senior Member

    Joined: Oct 9, 2001 Messages: 1,397 Likes Received: 28
    Damn, I'm sorta sorry I poisoned the post about Littlejohn's book being online with this line of discussion. If I hadn't focused on the CrimethInc.com people who originated putting up the online book, I guess I wouldn't be here (discussing this dreary shit) but the people involved in Crimeth.Inc make breaking the law look like a big fucking lark. It ain't no lark. Sure, shoplifting is a lightweight crime, but I know somebody twenty-five years ago who got five years in the Wisconsin penitentiary for shoplifting. He had racked a bunch of rock albums. Imagine that! Shit, today you can't even buy a stereo that will PLAY them!! That stuff that people are shoplifting belongs to somebody. If I owned the store, and some guy ripped me off and I caught him, I'd demand that the D.A. prosecute. If somebody robbed my store with a gun, I'd have a mind to try to kill him. If it's my store, and that merchandise belongs to me, how disrespectful and arrogant is it to come in my store and think that he can just TAKE my shit without paying me for it? If you tried that with most criminals, they would do their best to take your life, not because of the money, but because of the lack of respect. Nobody who rips off my property is going to just walk out scot free. If I was out hopping and some streamliner tried to take my gear, he had better be prepared to fight for his life. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY. It's about being a man. Men don't rip shit off. Men earn their livelihood fair and square. Maybe I'm crazy, but that's what I believe. I would have a lot more respect for anarchists if they pulled their own weight instead of taking things that don't belong to them. I see no dignity in stealing, and no honor. Young people today are always talking about "respect this" and "respect that." Those who have no respect, get no respect.
    It's hard to square this gut-level feeling with trainhopping. Trainhopping is, by it's very nature, a form of taking something that doesn't belong to me (i.e. a ride on an empty train car) without paying. The fact that it doesn't cost the railroad much won't wash. One can of Rusto won't cost Wal-Mart much, either. All I can say is that I accept that I'm a hypocrite. I believe one thing, but do something different.
     
  10. Agent Uprise

    Agent Uprise New Jack

    Joined: Feb 17, 2002 Messages: 70 Likes Received: 0
    Those are nice campfire stories about prison (except the fact that they're blatently racist) but they aren't nearly as absolute as they may sound. You dont have to join a "white prison group" (ha!) to survive. If you act like a man you get treated like a man. PERIOD. Just cause some black gangbanger (usually homophobic as any gangbanger is) sells drugs doesnt automaticly mean hes some foaming at the mouth "white boy raping negroe". You have a bad habit of overly romanticizing things. It doesnt take very much to get locked up these days so consequentially the jails are mostly filled with NON VIOLENT drug offenders. I dont know why no one else is calling you on this but its the truth, prison is a terrible mental torture beyond anything you could ever imagine, but as for all the violence/raping its not anywhere close to what movies and popular stereotypes would have you believe.

    ALSO, you said that prison is worse than jail. Anybody with even the smallest experience in either would tell you its the OPPOSITE. In jail everyone has a name to prove. They have to prove to thier gang that they are worth banging with. People are in jail for relatively short amounts of time so no one knows anyone elses and the 'proving yourself' issue is constant. In jail the inmates who assault/rape other inmates have yet to do such and are mixed in with all elements of the population, some of whom are unable to defend themselfs. Heres the kicker, if you are in jail you are either serving a small sentence or have yet to be sentenced than you don't give a fuck. Youll be gone soon enuf so your free to start all the shit you want. In prison you get time off for good behavior. TIME OFFFFFFFF! You think motherfuckers wanna fuck up thier time over some dumb shit. In prison the time is longer and things get settled into a routine. You only have to prove yourself a few times because people know who you are. Im not saying shit doesnt happen but people are trying to get out, not throw "kill whitey" orgies.
    On that topic tho, white people do have prove themselves more than a black person would.
     
  11. Agent Uprise

    Agent Uprise New Jack

    Joined: Feb 17, 2002 Messages: 70 Likes Received: 0
    C'mon Kabar you know damn well we dont even prescribe to that whole 'private property' bullshit. If your using something or its a personal effect then its all yours, but as for a wal-mart full of widgets is concerned, fuck it. So the CEO of wal mart cant get a third DVD player in one of his Lincoln Navigators, boo-fucking-hoo!!!!!
    Stealing from stores (except independent shops) is like a double negative. Capitalism relies on stolen labor to produce shit so how could you even make a moral arguement against stealing it back?!?
    As far as crimethink, or most anarchists, are concerned, stealing from a mom and pop store is a BIG no-no.

    If you wanted to be a MAN and live fair and square you move off the stolen land you live on, stop using the stolen technology you are (windows) stop eating food grown by other people who get PAID SHIT, youd make your own clothes instead of wearing those produced in sweatshops, etc etc

    And finally whats up with this guilt shit about riding trains? Doesn't the term land grabbing rail barron mean anything to you?!
     
  12. Iconoclasti

    Iconoclasti New Jack

    Joined: Mar 26, 2002 Messages: 4 Likes Received: 0
     
  13. Southern kid

    Southern kid Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 19, 2000 Messages: 3,965 Likes Received: 0
    kabar..you are one hell of a dude. im looking forward to meeting up with you..and many times at that. info like whoa.
     
  14. KaBar

    KaBar Senior Member

    Joined: Oct 9, 2001 Messages: 1,397 Likes Received: 28
    Sorry guys, I ain't buying it. I guess I'm immunized against all that class struggle-the white folks are bad-it's all the capitalist's fault stuff. You've free to believe it, but I know better. We stole the land? Oh, well. I guess it's tough shit for the losers. We benefit from the slave labor of the poor old Third World? It's a hard life all around. I'm glad I'm here and not there. If I was there, I suppose I'd be unhappy. You are free to do as you please, and if worshiping at the anarchist altar suits you, I'm cool with it. Been there, done that.
    Prison is brutal and dangerous as hell, for the guards as well as the prisoners. It's not over-romanticizing to think it's a good idea to avoid breaking the law, to avoid getting arrested and sent to jail. I know more about jail and prison than I wish I knew. Maybe my viewpoint is skewed because I live in Texas. Down here, if you take a fall, it's twelve hours a day on a hoe squad with an aggie in your hand, strip searched every time you pass through the sally port, and no such thing as "I know my rights." You will call the gun boss "Captain" with a note of respect in your voice, or pay the price. The prison guards could not care less what happens to you. If you go to prison down here, you will do exactly as you are told, or wind up in Ad Seg. Maybe up north, jails are different. I don't know. Texas is a real bad place to get caught breaking the law.
    There are a few instances in the movies in which, despite themselves, the liberal Hollywood propaganda machine gets it exactly right. In the movie "Full Metal Jacket," the boot camp sequences are perfect except for one scene, in which Private Pyle shoots his Drill Instructor. In real life, no Marine recruit has ever actually shot his Drill Instructor, although a couple of conspiracies to do so have been foiled over the years. The combat scenes supposedly in Hue City are not realistic, although they are compelling, to a degree. (Former Marine Gunnery Sergeant Lee Emery was hired as a technical consultant to teach the actor the correct gestures and voice, and once the directors saw Emery work, they just said "Hell, let's just have Emery do it!")
    I've been told that the unrelenting shoot-'em-up in "Blackhawk Down" is very accurate, and a friend of mine who is a Vietnam veteran said that the combat scenes in "We Were Soldiers Once..." are accurate, up to a point.
    All my knowledge of prison life comes from visiting an acquaintance over the years who did eleven years in Walla Walla, and the sad stories of my friend who did time in Texas. I went through the various parts of the prison as a visitor, not an inmate. I spent a lot of holidays and weekend days up there, over the years. It was pretty bad even as a visitor. I have a relative who is a prison guard here in Texas.
    I don't think I could exaggerate it worse than it actually is.
    I think it's safe to say that everything I described is true. Perhaps my reaction to the truth is more appalled and horrified than it should be. Maybe the prison life I know about is worse than that with which you are familiar. At any rate, being imprisoned is not a thing to be risked lightly. The anarchists I knew who were imprisoned were brutalized in horrible ways by the other inmates. I'd be very careful.
    I don't have a lot of hand-wringing sympathy for the wretched of the earth. A lot of their problems they bring upon themselves, and they have a tendency to victimize one another. It's dreary and pointless.
    We are responsible for our own lives. If you want to steal from Wal-Mart, be my guest. Don't snivel if you get caught and punished, though. For my part, I say "Don't take unnecessary risks." It's simply not worth it, at least, not in my opinion.
    My concern about riding trains has less to do with offending the railroad company, and more to do with not breaking the law. The railroad barons were bad. Joe Six-Pack Working Class is usually good. Nevertheless the railroad is the private property of a corporation, and if I trespass on it, and get caught, I'll have to answer for it one way or another, unless I can figure out a way to get out of it.
     
  15. dukeofyork

    dukeofyork Guest

    almost everyone i know has gone through some type of anarchist state of mind....from what i have seen in most of my friends is that its something you grow out of. a youthful rebellion type of thing. hey, everyones entitled to their own beliefs though. like kabar said before, i like where i live because it is better than any alternative around. if this country were so bad, how come so many people are trying to get in? its all a matter of opinion, pretty much..
     
Top