Darwin's Theory: Natural Selection, "EVOLUTION"

Why is it being pushed as complete fact? It is only a theory right? Is it because the idea of one thing changing into another thing over millions of years supposed to be more scientific or is more suitable to teach in schools vs anything else? Should anything be taught in school regarding human origin if there are no definite answers?

Your thought ?

The evidence in favor of evolution is far stronger than the evidence in favor of intelligent design, which is widely regarded as a matter of faith even by its proponents. As far as what's taught, that depends on what kind of school we're talking about.

I don't really have an opinion about this either way...if you want to believe the world was created in seven days, fine with me. Just don't fault me and others for siding with science.

i believe neither of them but i don't want anyone telling me 'this is how it happened' I'd like to see more emphasis on the reality that we have no answers, The origin of all things can not (as of this point) ever be explained. So far we understand what most everything consist of yet we do not know what made it happen or why? The idea of a big bang is just as ridiculous as the big guy in the sky made everything, is it not? What makes either one more scientific or of more merit then the other?

if you think science is 'ridiculous' then you simply don't understand it.

comparing religion to science is ridiculous, and it reflects your ignorance.

and has been posted in the other threads about god, you and your ilk do not know what theory means.

anyone that doesn't believe in evolution or believes in intelligent design is a fucking moron. end of.

There is more evidence to the big bang than the zero evidence that proves a god exists.

When I think about the theory of evolution I immediately think of consciousness (sort of off topic but it ties in). Would it not dictate that consciousness itself would have to evolve as well? Therefore implying that there was at one time such thing as half-consciousness, which may or not even exist. It would also mean that every other measurement of it would have had to take place. Then that begs the question of what means would you measure consciousness? How can we definitively have substance and recordable data for discussing consciousness within evolution.

I am no religious freak but I have beliefs. My thoughts towards both intelligent design and evolution is this: Perhaps evolution itself is a product of a much larger intelligent design. Human beings see only fractions of a percent of what really surrounds us. The shreds of information may well be only a small piece of the puzzle.

anyone that doesn't believe in evolution .. is a fucking moron.

:zombie:

Human beings see only fractions of a percent of what really surrounds us. The shreds of information may well be only a small piece of the puzzle.

i agree 100%

if you think science is 'ridiculous' then you simply don't understand it.

 

comparing religion to science is ridiculous, and it reflects your ignorance.

 

and has been posted in the other threads about god, you and your ilk do not know what theory means.

First off, your posi-props note you gave me was hilarious.

Second, how in the hell is this productive?

Instead of calling him out on being ignorant on this subject, why not make him EDUCATED on this subject.

Instead of simply saying "you don't know what a theory means"

Why not explain to him that there are two general ways people use the word "theory"

Laypeople use it colloquially in place of the word idea.

Scientists, on the other, hand use the word theory or more specifically scientific theory to describe a mountain of facts that all kind of point to the same explanation on a system of processes.

Here...

Germ Theory

Theory of Gravity

Theory of Evolution

ya dig?

the reason i refuse to make his thread seem to have merit is because i've had this exact conversation with him in the other god vs science threads.

he's a troll or an idiot and isn't willing to put the time into learning anything, whether its science or politics.

the reason i refuse to make his thread seem to have merit

That's not what I asked, but fair enough.

Germ = fact

Gravity = fact

Evolution = theory

ya pig?

now that's better

Why is it being pushed as complete fact? It is only a theory right? Is it because the idea of one thing changing into another thing over millions of years supposed to be more scientific or is more suitable to teach in schools vs anything else? Should anything be taught in school regarding human origin if there are no definite answers?

 

Your thought ?[/size][/color]

There is one purpose and one purpose only to an academic education: To get a fucking job. Science is one of the fastest growing and highest paying fields in america right now and by refusing to learn evolution, you're limiting your job opportunities.

What are you limiting by not learning about jesus? Does church pay well? Get the fuck out of here with that. And if you teach kids about jesus, why not mythology, muslim, hinduism, mormonism, scientology, wiccan, harry potter, the twilight movies etc. Oh that's right, because school for kids goes from 8-3 before learning all that shit too. Colleges generally have a "religious studies" class alllll about this bullshit.

Also natural selection is one form of evolution. Evolution itself is fact but dominant and recessive are not hardwired into someone at birth. They can be switched on and off many times throughout a person's life due to nutrition, exercise, stress, trauma, etc. An area in east europe felt the effects of a famine three generations AFTER the famine ended (children were born malnourished, and as they returned to a normal body size, their hearts were underdeveloped and heard disease was rampant). Children of army veterans can be born with PTSD. Depending on how finite their foodsource is, Locusts change their breeding habits and take about 3 generations to start pumping out tons of babies after an abundant foodsource is found.

Once again you learn about all this in school because you may want $80k starting salary out of college, and to further the study of genetics and evolution. You're an idiot if you think it hurts to learn about evolution. Dont compare religion to genes.

/endthread

^ I don't remember mentioning religion on that of which you are replying to but okay i get it.

Not entirely unrelated, this video is pretty awesome

Because religion is the one who doesnt want kids to be taught evolution.

Edit: that was a cool video. Even Einstein believed in god. Maybe not in the way described in the bible but he said that the universe was too perfect to be random.

But like I said, if you want to prove to the world that god does exist, you have to learn evolution, you have to learn all there is to know currently about science so you can become a scientist and proliferate the current wealth of knowledge on the subject. The reason people dont want evolution taught in school is because the fear the church will lose followers and financial support. Who's fault is that? Nobody told the church to build their foundation on a pile of bullshit. There's no reason to build the belief of god on everything we know about the universe.

To be honest i think it would be more productive if more people thought about where we are going as a species rather than which lizard can dominate the sunniest spot on the rock the longest

Energy & Food crisis / Future fatalist oner

"Icons of Evolution"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVMRBccbINI

:EDIT: =)

I'm not in support of evolution..

Still a good vid to watch

That video has everything to do with the maker's religious beliefs but ok...

Edit: Nice edit there, mclovin

Anyway the guy is using the term "Darwinian Evolution" because he's disputing Darwin's theory of how evolution occurs. He's not disputing evolution itself, because he can't.

i took a class (back in 2007) called primate evolution, and it actually opened my eyes to a lot of evidence they've found supporting the theory of evolution.

it was a pretty interesting course and now fully believe that evolution as described in science textbooks may have in fact occurred from the primordial soup.

but i still believe in God. Of course, there is no evidence supporting the existence of God..thats all faith based.

I find it funny that people don't believe in evolution. I have never met a British person that has told me that they don't believe in evolution, whenever this debate comes up I have only ever heard americans try and argue against it, and I do know British people with faith and they still believe in evolution.

i have river out of eden... never got to reading it though.

thanks for reminding me .

For those who don't believe in evolution:

After watching that, please answer the following questions:

Why do children look like their parents?

Why do dog breeders talk about "personalities" of different dog breeds?

What causes different breeds to have different personalities?

Why do domesticated dogs understand human language better than any other animal?

Why are domesticated dogs capable of reading human facial expressions while no other animal, including housecoats, can?

Why do all mammals from whales, to humans, to dogs, to bats, to giraffes have almost the exact same organic structure, right down to the exact same number of neck bones?

Go ahead, take your time, think of an answer before moving on.

DNA has everything to do with hormonal levels, brain size, personalities, physical features, etc. Who you are, how you react to stress, your fight or flight mechanism is all encoded into your DNA.

I've had the privilege of raising seeing eye puppies and its amazing how smarter, happier, more loving, more trainable each generation is. That's because each generation is made from the happiest, smartest, most loving dogs of the previous generation.

Evolution is the exact same thing. Most animals can only survive in a very small corner of the world. The vegetation varies. The weather's different. The other local animals have different habits and diets. You take all that and after several generations the environment will sculpt that animal into something else, just like the ocean sculpts rocky coasts into sandy beaches.

Breeding dogs is no different than dinosaurs evolving into birds. The only difference is one world is man made, the other is natural.

A couple more examples. The north american earthworm was actually brought over here by brittish pilgrims. They thought that they were needed to farm. The north american redwood, once the tallest trees in the world became so tall because all the fertilizer they needed was piled meters high on the forest floor. With no worms to break down the nitric acid trees had all the nutrients to themselves. Now that earthworms are everywhere in north america, redwood trees don't grow as tall because the nutrient levels in the soil have declined.

THAT'S evolution.

Human beings see only fractions of a percent of what really surrounds us.

If we can't see it how do you know it exists?

And just for good measure (because your comment reminded me of this), the old "Humans only use 10% of their brain" is also a load of shit too. Go stick your noggin in an fMRI machine for an hour or two and watch that sucka light up all over the place.

As for evolution, I've only ever been taught it as a theory. No one has ever tried to give it to me as a fact.

God you're dumb. You probably have been taught it as fact, but weren't paying attention.

"Humans only see a fraction of a percent of what surrounds us." Is completely true.

First off, you ever wonder how in a crowd of people you can still hear someone calling your name? It's selective hearing. Your brain takes in billions of bits of information and then just as quickly throws out everything that doesn't relate to you.

I had a concussion once and the way I described it was this: Your brain is a giant filter, and when I had my concussion that filter came off. I could hear and see EVERYTHING at the exact same time, which lead to the biggest fucking migraines I have ever felt in my entire life because I wasn't able to focus on any one thing. Imagine trying to listen to a class lecture but you can't hear your teacher over two kids talking outside of the classroom, or if a bird is chirping. Or if a car drives by. Imagine driving and not being able to concentrate on what's in front of you. If your brain can't prioritize information you can't function as a human being. That means MOST information is going to get thrown out.

Another example is how our eyes work. Out of an infinite spectrum of colors humans can only see three of them. Red, green and blue (RGB). Birds however see in trichromic vision, which means not only do they see more colors, but they also see UV light rays (think infrared) at the exact same time.

And humans do only use 10% of their brain. Go get an MRI. See how much of your brain is lit up at any given moment. It's about 10%.

God you're dumb. You probably have been taught it as fact, but weren't paying attention.

"Humans only see a fraction of a percent of what surrounds us." Is completely true.

 

First off, you ever wonder how in a crowd of people you can still hear someone calling your name? It's selective hearing.

Yes, it's called the cocktail party effect.

Your brain takes in billions of bits of information and then just as quickly throws out everything that doesn't relate to you.

Hahaha, really? that's how it works, is it? riiiight.

I had a concussion once and the way I described it was this: Your brain is a giant filter, and when I had my concussion that filter came off. I could hear and see EVERYTHING at the exact same time, which lead to the biggest fucking migraines I have ever felt in my entire life because I wasn't able to focus on any one thing. Imagine trying to listen to a class lecture but you can't hear your teacher over two kids talking outside of the classroom, or if a bird is chirping. Or if a car drives by. Imagine driving and not being able to concentrate on what's in front of you. If your brain can't prioritize information you can't function as a human being. That means MOST information is going to get thrown out.

No, silly boy, that's not what it means at all. But your awesomely scientific analysis was entertaining, thanks!

And humans do only use 10% of their brain. Go get an MRI. See how much of your brain is lit up at any given moment. It's about 10%.

That is simply untrue. But I also like how you've taken "only use 10% of the brain" to "only use 10% of their brain at any given moment".

I never understand why you have to be such a wanker in the way you discuss things, Soup. I'd bet my right arm that you're a skinny little pin-dick that is a hell of a lot more polite in real life when he discusses things and the internet is the only place you can actually talk to people like this.

 

Breeding dogs is no different than dinosaurs evolving into birds.

this^

how the hell can you compare the two. i understand by definition but not by the theory the dog gradually changed i will not deny that. dog fucks dog, fucks different dog ect. will gradually change and have the characteristics of the parent (i look like my mother father - my mothers fathers father ect.) How is that evolution? .. Also, when did the leap take place for dinosaurs to make a fucking u-turn and become an ENTIRELY! different species of animal? different DNA, instincts, intelligence, fucking wings! different absolutely everything! just because they look similar? I will not deny that the theory of evolution is cool as fuck! like science fiction movie but i just can't buy into it sorry.

*Preparing for more negs and insults:dozey:

In real life I am a nice guy, wild jumbait. I'm not really polite. I try to be, but I'm known to call people out when they're talking out of their ass to the point that doing so is called pulling a soup (actually its called pulling a "*****" but if you don't know my real name you're not a real fan). Nevertheless, your response to my post has nothing to do with my response and everything to do with you getting defensive about the little you actually know on the subject. You made a complete 180 on your stance about "Humans only see a fraction of a percent of what surrounds us." and actually presented a clinical term supporting what I was talking about. Your strategy of calling me dumb and then supporting what I'm saying doesn't seem to be working.

this^

 

how the hell can you compare the two. i understand by definition but not by the theory the dog gradually changed i will not deny that. dog fucks dog, fucks different dog ect. will gradually change and have the characteristics of the parent (i look like my mother father - my mothers fathers father ect.) How is that evolution? .. Also, when did the leap take place for dinosaurs to make a fucking u-turn and become an ENTIRELY! different species of animal? different DNA, instincts, intelligence, fucking wings! different absolutely everything! just because they look similar? I will not deny that the theory of evolution is cool as fuck! like science fiction movie but i just can't buy into it sorry.

*Preparing for more negs and insults:dozey:

Lets back up for a second and find what we've established here:

It took prehistoric man about 10,000-100,000 years to evolve a wolf into a modern day dog. Nowadays A modern day dog breeder can breed a domesticated wolf in a few years of breeding. Same with any animal. If you watched the video I posted on dogs, they actually show a breeder taking a wild fox and breeding a domestic fox after several years (tens of generations). And by "domesticated" I mean taking an animal with no social skills and just a desire to fuck a human up, to a docile creature that just wants to cuddle. And what's interesting about the whole process is when the breeder was JUST focusing on personality/behavior, the physical attributes changed automatically. The fox went from its dark red fur to white, the snout shortened, the forehead elongated—They were the exact same physical differences Wolves made into Domesticated dogs, so there's a direct link to personality and physical attributes.

With dogs, we're talking about a very, very short span of time. With dinosaurs, namely the velociraptor evolving into a bird, and then that bird evolving to a huge variety of birds, we're talking about 300,000,000 years.

Now assuming you believe fossils are real and not some conspiracy to overthrow religion, there is fossilized evidence of this evolution. As in they've not only found fossil records of velociraptors, but smaller velociraptors developing wings and feathers, and finally birds

You can google this and find tons of stuff about it. Here's the first video i found.

Now understand there's a main difference between domesticating a dog and transforming a running dinosaur into a flying bird—The domesticated dog was man's doing. We selected what two dogs would breed with one another. With the raptor, the variety of reasons why two raptors would breed with one another is a longer list of variables. Overall, animals get smaller when the food they eat is in shorter, smaller supply. I know insects were around since before dinosaurs, and modern reptiles eat insects, so its fair to guess that some dinosaurs probably ate insects. Maybe all the big insects were eaten by larger dinosaurs, so the only ones left were smaller ones. Then the dinosaurs slowly became smaller because there wasn't any big insects to fatten up on. We see the same thing with redwood trees in california. You have giant ancient redwoods that were capable of growing so large because nothing else was eating all the nutrient-rich mulch. Then when european settlers came they brought earthworms, which eat the same things trees do, and now all the new redwoods don't grow as big.

Evolution is a biological reaction to an ever changing environment.

Here's another example of man-made evolution: Asians can't digest alcohol. Europeans can. That's because Europeans used to sanitize their drinking water through fermentation into alcohol. Actually it was the first step of boiling the water that sanitized it but they thought it was the whole process. During the midevil times they literally refused to drink anything but beer. Meanwhile asian cultures purified their drinking water by boiling it and making it into tea. Over time European bodies adapted to living on beer instead of water. Asians didn't.

Nevertheless, your response to my post has nothing to do with my response and everything to do with you getting defensive about the little you actually know on the subject. You made a complete 180 on your stance about "Humans only see a fraction of a percent of what surrounds us." and actually presented a clinical term supporting what I was talking about. Your strategy of calling me dumb and then supporting what I'm saying doesn't seem to be working.

 

My stance? And what was that stance? I believe I only asked a question, I don't recall taking a stance on that particular matter. But you read whatever you want, DAO...., I mean Soup.

I believe it was you who started calling people dumb, but whatever. Mate, I don't really care to argue with you on this or any other matter, to be honest. I did enough psych at uni to hold a psych minor, I'm confident in my knowledge on the matter and have no need to prove myself to you.

Feel free to get the last word in.

I used to talk to DAO. His two year old cussed me out once. Had a hard time with the K in "Fuck" and S in "Soup" but I got the gist of what he was trying to say.

Oh and I hate to break it to you but all my posts stay on topic. This one is the exception because theres neither you or anyone else has anything about evolution to respond to. Usually, however, responding to people resorting to insults is like the first half-paragraph of any post, then I always post 3 or 4 paragraphs responding to people who actually are interested in a discussion based on the topic. But every now and then you get someone like you who hasn't learned yet that it's impossible to beef with someone over the internet. Then eventually they do what you just did: Lay down and pretend to be the victim of some fake ebeef they started, generally ending in "Yeah go get the last word in." I'm not interested in playing this kids game with you. Either discuss evolution or don't.