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Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by JesusMachine, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Mercer

    Mercer Moderator Crew

    Joined: May 2, 2007 Messages: 10,652 Likes Received: 1,072
    I just pulled a majority of my HODL out this afternoon. USD's now sitting on GDAX waiting for this dip to bottom out.

    Predicting a healthy correction followed by alt coin gains.
  2. theprotester

    theprotester Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 8, 2006 Messages: 10,979 Likes Received: 903
    Yeah riding it is funny. If I looked at it as wins and losses without cashing out then I've had a suicide last few hours...
  3. Mercer

    Mercer Moderator Crew

    Joined: May 2, 2007 Messages: 10,652 Likes Received: 1,072
    The dip stings much more than the upswing feels good. I could double my money in a week, but if it goes down 20% in a day I'm the 1st world problems meme.

    Just bought back in and profited 1.7 ETH on this dip so at least I've got that going for me .jpg
  4. Dirty_habiT

    Dirty_habiT Administrator

    Joined: Mar 8, 2001 Messages: 18,136 Likes Received: 82
    Do you have more info on the tax? That potentially makes it a lot more difficult to make money on crypto. I know, I can google, but I want to hear it from you.
  5. Mercer

    Mercer Moderator Crew

    Joined: May 2, 2007 Messages: 10,652 Likes Received: 1,072
    The problem with figuring out tax is the IRS isn't 100% clear on the rules. Depending on how you interpret the laws, you could owe just for buying in, then owe a capitol gains tax on you profits, then have to pay again when exchanging those profits into fiat. Sort of like getting arrested, and the cops deciding how to charge you, plenty of gray area for them to work with.

    Here's the best online resource I've found https://bitcoin.tax/

    I don't have the patience to refer back to every single small alt trade & gain/loss I've made, and figure it all out referring to ytd price to USD charts, so I'm just adjusting my gross income to include my fiat withdrawals out of Gemini, Gdax/Coinbase without deducting the bank deposits into these exchanges. Worse comes to worse, they say I owe more, but I should be able to wiggle out of any penalties by being upfront and at least trying to pay.

    One thing I do know for sure from the recent IRS/Coinbase ruling, transactions over 20,000.00 have to be reported by the exchanges. The fact that they fought this in court, and didn't fold when IRS originally demanded everyone's records is pretty reassuring. As I understand it, the ruling was applied retroactively to accounts between 2013/2015. I'm not exactly sure if they're 1099'ing 2016-now so I'll wait and see if they send me anything. I don't hold on exchanges long enough for significant gains so it will be interesting to see.

    If you're super paranoid about withdrawing profits, you can always anonymously hit up a crypto ATM or just exchange crypto for goods and services on Overstock, Expedia, ect. My own plan is to hodl most of what I've accumulated until there isn't a need to exchange into fiat any more. I've had serious problems with the IRS before and trust me, it's not fun. I didn't file one year and got surprise 1099'd, ended up owing quite a bit, but was able to get a little sympathy by being poor, and still making payments so got a lot of the penalty reduced. A nightmare to say the least.

    Damn, looks like I got back in too soon the market is still dipping. Fall 2017 noobs panic selling.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  6. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,962 Likes Received: 397
    Not really correct. The dollar isn't backed by anything. In fact, its a note of debt. Technically every dollar in existence represents that amount of debt, plus interest as dictated by the federal reserve (prime interest rate). The federal reserve (a misnomer as its is not a government agency), is held privately held and part of the central banking system. They can expand the market or contract the market as they see fit (which essentially means moving decimal points in a digital ledger so that magically we have more or less money in circulation). they are also a lender of last resort for the government, though they try to abstract this by offering money at below market rate so that mega banks like JP Morgan can in turn by government bonds at deep discounts since the fed essentially guarantees a profit by adjusting the rate accordingly and then actually handing them the money. Further they also buy bad debt (meaning companies and assets that are upside down) by again moving decimal points on a ledger to create new money. They then sell this off at convenient times and strap the american taxpayer with the difference, plus interest on the entire thing.

    GDP really has very little to do with it beyond serving as a very loose indicator of where the market (monetary supply) should actually be. Considering the feds have dumped over $1 trillion into the economy since the crash in 2008, with no GDP increase anywhere near that level of growth, you can see how it almost doesn't even matter at all. They risk nothing, but gain everything so they adjust as they see fit, with almost no transparency or meaningful government oversight, hence the "audit the fed" bill that never seems to go anywhere.

    Gold backed currency is intended to stabilize a currency. Because it is a finite resource when you peg a currency to it, it prevents funny business like moving decimal point son a ledger to increase the money supply. This is precisely why crypto adopted that method virtually. The framework for how it works is based upon computers in the network solving mathematical formulas that become exponentially more difficult over time. The formulas follow moore's law in that processing power doubles every 18 months exponentially. Since that law has held true for the last few decades, if it were to continue, the estimate is that Bitcoin will take something like 120 years to mine from first to last. As such, you have a transparency with the size of the market not found in typical fiat currencies like the US Dollar. Since all currency is simply a store of money and since it's impossible to hack the block chain that crypto is built on and since we can project what the monetary supply is and will be, it simply leaves consumer confidence as the hurdle to over come. With BTC about to surpass a $20k ceiling, I'd say that its very quickly gaining everyones confidence. Further to this, the underlying tech (block chain) being decentralized and unhackable means that anything requiring high security and a stable decentralized network will benefit. This is what they'll be building self driving cars, delivery trucks, freight liners and more from. It'll likely also be the foundation to other communication protocols for shit like remote surgeries performed by doctors on the internet and executed by robots on the other side of the planet. Really the possibilities for block chain are as profound as the internet itself.

    So now that genie is out of the bottle and we see a unit of value that has no middle man, is divisible out to 21 decimal points what do you think will happen to all those little countries with a ton of wealth (natural resource) but no seat at the petro dollar table? Or what happens when its matures to the point that its not just nerds talking about it, but becomes as prolific as the internet and smart phones? We're witnessing a revolution unfold that I believe few people can even wrap their heads around quite yet.
  7. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,962 Likes Received: 397
    True indeed. But considering how it all works, best they can do is hit the USA based exchanges and look for transactions where crypto is converted to dollars and then work back to how many dollars were spent to begin with (whioch will no doubt be on the individual to prove). I dounbt they'll even bother with audits... They'll just hit the exchanges and send people bills against the withdrawl's when it not immediately obvious on your return.

    But considering you can send your crypto off a domestic exchange and hold it in a private wallet, then in turn use that wealth to buy precious metals using crypto and later cash that out... Well, I'm sure there's a lot of fuckin people out in DC that are very concerned about their take on your income.
  8. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,962 Likes Received: 397
    Keep in mind that though every transaction is stored in the blockchain in the form of a hash... And that hash is created dynamically from the signature that in turn was verified by a private key that literally nobody but the owner knows... Even the addresses for private wallets are rotated with every transaction. So if 10 people send crypto to my jaxx wallet, its in fact recorded to the blockchain as distinct hashes that describe the transaction with no easy way to describe the sender or recipient since its just long fuckin alphanumeric strings with very little context. Plus I can always print out the key and literally hand that to someone.

    I can see them hacking communications and hard drives and watching spending patterns long before they'll ever be able to decipher the blockchain.
  9. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,962 Likes Received: 397
    @Mercer I was talking to Julio / @psm026 the other day and for fun we tried to look up what BTC would be worth today if he'd spent $1k on it while we were in NYC. It was on our radar at the time, but we were all too caught up in shit to pay attention. Anyhow, we couldnt find pricing for that date so we looked forward +3 years to 2013. That $1k would have been worth around $1.133 million.

    Fucking nuts man.
  10. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,962 Likes Received: 397
    Copied from the other thread I made, now closed...

    If anyone wants to start up with crypto, feel free to jump into the conversation or DM me. If you dont have an account to buy yet, here's a referal code where you get a free $10 ass soon as you add $100 (I also get a free $10). https://www.coinbase.com/join/5a2fec64cd1ae9019f6e3b7

    Coinbase is a great way to get started and an easy way to convert from dollar to crypto and back again, but its not really a trading platform. But you do have to start somewhere and Coinbase is great for that.
  11. Mercer

    Mercer Moderator Crew

    Joined: May 2, 2007 Messages: 10,652 Likes Received: 1,072
    I've got a close friend in DC who dropped a grand on a single Bitcoin in Dec. 2013. Got discouraged when his investment dropped to $500 in a week and kept dropping. Eventually he stopped checking, and counted it as a loss, never cashed out though. He was shocked to see the news on how high it got in Nov. cashed out about a half a Bitcoin at a 1800% gain.
  12. JesusMachine

    JesusMachine Elite Member

    Joined: Sep 3, 2002 Messages: 4,509 Likes Received: 207
    Still hodling the little amount of coins I have (i have the big 3).

    Which is the easiest and best exchange. I'm on coinbase now but want to get into the alts. Heard Binance is good.

    @Mercer @misteraven Thanks for the knowledge (wisdom and understanding). I'm about to cop some more during this dip. Are you guys HODLing?

    @Mercer Haven't seen you in IG for a minute. I'm assuming it's because you're getting all this CREAM. My handle is CLICKCLACKONER.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
    Decyferon likes this.
  13. JesusMachine

    JesusMachine Elite Member

    Joined: Sep 3, 2002 Messages: 4,509 Likes Received: 207
    Yikes... I'm TEAM HODL tho.

    Who's shopping this fire sale today? Might cop some LTC if it goes under $150 and maybe some more BTC.

    Screen Shot 2018-01-16 at 5.46.14 PM.png
  14. Mercer

    Mercer Moderator Crew

    Joined: May 2, 2007 Messages: 10,652 Likes Received: 1,072
    What up Click Clack. Still doing my thing. Hope all is good with you.

    As far as crypto goes, I lost a good bit today (understatement) mostly hodling ETH, XMR, & BCH. Still riding out this dip till the wheels fall off. Would have been worried about this a year or two ago, but zero fucks given at this point. Got some fiat deposits sitting on mine/wifey's GDAX waiting on "the bottom" whatever that is. Might pick up more ADA on Binance, thinking it's got serious potential as a good ETH hedge. I just asked for more OT at work because I'm guessing this is going to be a 1 or 2 month bear market opportunity. Also thinking BTC might not ever fully recover from this and lose the throne.

    As far as IG goes, I got shook down by IG once they started rearranging people's feeds. Long story but here goes. I wrote a "likebot" automation script when I started blowing up on there in 2013. It basically clicked a like automatically on any post hashtagged #NYC. People would get a random like, check my page, and I'd get 20-30 new followers a day (when I could keep the bot running). It stopped working after a couple months, but by then I was well over 3000 followers. Flash forward to 2016, IG/FB wanted me to pay them, just so my posts would be able to be viewed by the people already following me. A lot of my C and even D list instafame friends got the same deal offered to them. We'd post something that started to trend, then get a message "Have all your followers view this post by promoting..." Didn't want to actually monetize my account so it just wasn't worth it. To be honest, it wasn't even worth looking at anymore by that point, I'd only be able to see 3 day old posts or advertisements in my feed so I just faded out. They kind of ruined it for small time content creators.

    2018 is the 12ozProphet comeback year, we're all old now and can trade tips/tricks on old people stuff now. What mops can handle rough surfaces, and won't fuck with my rheumatoid arthritis? Which adult diapers work best for racking? What color Vapormaxes will best match with a chrome wheelchair, and gray pubes? My best guess is the Navy Blue flyknits, Wonk Saggin DLO.
    NightmareOnElmStreet likes this.
  15. Mercer

    Mercer Moderator Crew

    Joined: May 2, 2007 Messages: 10,652 Likes Received: 1,072
    So glad XRP tanked extra harbody. No pity for anyone who got FOMO scammed into buying it. There's literally zero present/future use cases for it.
    theprotester likes this.