By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum...
    You are currently logged out and viewing our forum as a guest which only allows limited access to our discussions, photos and other forum features. If you are a 12ozProphet Member please login to get the full experience.

    If you are not a 12ozProphet Member, please take a moment to register to gain full access to our website and all of its features. As a 12ozProphet Member you will be able to post comments, start discussions, communicate privately with other members and access members-only content. Registration is fast, simple and free, so join today and be a part of the largest and longest running Graffiti, Art, Style & Culture forum online.

    Please note, if you are a 12ozProphet Member and are locked out of your account, you can recover your account using the 'lost password' link in the login form. If you no longer have access to the email you registered with, please email us at [email protected] and we'll help you recover your account. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum (and don't forget to follow @12ozprophet in Instagram)!

Buying Gold and other investments

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by Dawood, Mar 7, 2008.

  1. CALIgula

    CALIgula Moderator Crew

    Joined: Mar 1, 2004 Messages: 36,370 Likes Received: 1,246
    Please don't be.
    theprotester likes this.
  2. theprotester

    theprotester Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 8, 2006 Messages: 10,991 Likes Received: 906
    Was more aimed at dude getting robbed so much, but ok.
    KILZ FILLZ likes this.
  3. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

    Joined: Jun 16, 2007 Messages: 14,154 Likes Received: 1,005
  4. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

    Joined: Jun 16, 2007 Messages: 14,154 Likes Received: 1,005
    This conversation is basically four mods. we need some traffic.
    KILZ FILLZ likes this.
  5. theprotester

    theprotester Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 8, 2006 Messages: 10,991 Likes Received: 906
    Geez. I didn't think my conversation sucked that much. Hurtful.

    On the thread topic though crypto currency is good fun even if I have literally no idea what I'm doing.

    Land being a solid investment is basically a myth of the past I believe. I'm currently taking a bath on something that's list 10k a year since I bought it.

    Should have stayed with stock.

    Live and learn.

    KILZ FILLZ Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 30, 2008 Messages: 14,026 Likes Received: 973
  7. One Man Banned

    One Man Banned Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jan 9, 2013 Messages: 13,789 Likes Received: 2,557
    So much irony here. Traffic is really based on supplying content, which on this site translates to pictures. You're all on the site every day. But rarely posting pics. At the same time, most if not all of you have a smartphone on your person that allows you to take pics at any time during your day and post them. Most of you spend too much time on your phone checking it for nonsense reasons and could easily take 60-120 seconds of that time to post some content. This site has lost its following to IG/smartphones, you guys spend enough time on here, have the solution in your hands, and don't use it. The revamp did draw people's attention back to here but without content they swing through, see nothing, say hi, old times, etc., and are gone again without posting anything because why would they when others don't.
  8. theprotester

    theprotester Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 8, 2006 Messages: 10,991 Likes Received: 906
    Lol. You've got me pegged.
  9. theprotester

    theprotester Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 8, 2006 Messages: 10,991 Likes Received: 906
    Have a level crossing flick.

  10. theprotester

    theprotester Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 8, 2006 Messages: 10,991 Likes Received: 906
  11. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

    Joined: Jun 16, 2007 Messages: 14,154 Likes Received: 1,005
  12. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,987 Likes Received: 413
    I skipped to the end, so forgive me if this is basically a dead thread.

    Gold and silver (precious metals) aren't really investments. Rather they're a hedge. To explain... The Federal Reserve purposely debases our currency each year. They call is inflation, which (simplified) is the direct result of the economy expanding as a result of more debt being created. They try and target something in the range of 3 - 4%, but most people that actually pay attention understand it's generally more in the range of 7 - 8%. That means any money you have saved is losing its purchasing power by the inverse amount of the inflation, compounded yearly. Those of you old enough to have been aware in the 1980s can probably remember how when your mom went grocery shopping and bought $100 of groceries, this would generally take yup the entire trunk and most of the back seat of her car. Now $100 in groceries is more like 2 - 3 plastic bags you can probably carry in one hand.

    Note this isn't some sort of conspiracy... Alan Greenspan actually testified before Congress at one point and explained that the Federal Reserve is doing this according to plan. Our economy is entirely based upon a methodical and predictable expansion. That expansion is based upon debt. In other words, for it to actually function, there needs to be an exponential growth in debt each year or the economy stagnates.

    Where precious metals come in can be a little hard to wrap you head around, but (simplified), its a container for wealth. Wealth is almost universally exchanged for currency, which is why it is almost denominated as such. If you convert the value of something into another vessel such as precious metals, you'll note that the cost of things really hasn't changed significantly for most of recorded history. For example, if you look at the cost of a barrel of crude oil, valued out in ounces of silver (and not US Dollars), you'll see that in the 1960's it would have cost about the same as today, if you were to again value it in ounces of silver. The only thing that has changed is the purchasing power of the dollar as applied to it. To wrap your head around that example, back in the early 1960s a gallon of gas was about a quarter. A quarter in those days was made of 90% silver. That 90% silver (junk silver coin) today is worth about $3.25 (check eBay or wherever)... A gallon of gas, give or take is worth about $3.25 today.

    You can run examples like this all day long... What a house cost in the 1960s versus that exact house today. As well as other commodities such as bushels of wheat, tons of copper, etc... All of them will roughly come out costing the same in relation to each other as they do today, IF you change the valuation of it into something other then the dollar (or any other currency). So whether that be paying for a house in ounces of gold or in barrels of crude oil, the only significant change is the purchasing power of the dollar and not the value of the item in relation to any other vessel for holding wealth.

    So to loop back to the beginning... You invest money to make money and then convert your savings into something like silver so that the wealth is preserved. Most other stores of wealth work exactly the same way... Property for example. If you can afford a middle of the road home and you purchase it... As long as the denomination of its value is in US Dollars, selling it in the future will give you far more dollars, but those extra dollars at that time, will basically have the same purchasing power as today, ie: be enough to buy another middle of the road home. If instead, you put that money in the bank and saved it, you'd lose the 7 - 8% purchasing power, compounded over time for however long it is. So using the same example, that house in the 1960s that was $35,000 but today is worth $350,000 means that had you saved the money instead, today you could only afford to pay for 10% of that house because the purchasing power has been reduced as a result of the inflation (or debasement of the currency).

    So in other words, your silver wont necessarily return more (once you smooth out the peaks and valleys that are most often artificially manipulated) in the future, but rather ensure that your accumulated wealth stored in silver is stolen slowly from you through the bullshit tricks the Fed plays to slowly steal your wealth.

    Make sense now?
    Dirty_habiT and ClownPrince like this.
  13. One Man Banned

    One Man Banned Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jan 9, 2013 Messages: 13,789 Likes Received: 2,557
    To shorten, you shouldn't debase the value of the oontz forums by investing your flix in IGs and facebooks and shit. Invest them here and the oontz will grow exponentionally.

    Wonder how those old 12ozProphet mags I invested in are holding up against silver... :p
    Fist 666 likes this.
  14. ClownPrince

    ClownPrince Member

    Joined: Jan 23, 2007 Messages: 483 Likes Received: 43
    That response was worth its weight in gold, jeezus.
    I was clearly too much of a shit head in college to have ever pulled something so simple out of my economics class... I mean.. that's economics right? fuck me.
  15. Dirty_habiT

    Dirty_habiT Administrator

    Joined: Mar 8, 2001 Messages: 18,136 Likes Received: 82
    Great post Misteraven. In your opinion what is a better option to grow your wealth? I know some pretty intelligent people that buy into that idea of exchanging your extra cash for precious metals and it's weird to think that they're wrong, but what you said makes sense.

    You know what amazes me is that if you had bought $1000 worth of bitcoins in 2010 you'd be basically a millionaire right now. So many people slept on this idea and are still sleeping on it. There are even entire datacenters right now dedicated to microtransactions where you buy a bitcoin at a certain price in one currency and quickly exchange it for another currency that is worth a bit more than the currency that you bought the bitcoin for in the first place on the exchange rate. You do this, I dunno, thousands of times a day and you're basically printing money. It's the exact same idea as microtransaction stock trading. Yeah, the amounts gained are small in increment but when you do a ton of them a day you end up with a lot of accumulated wealth. The computers and networking equipment to do this are very expensive.

    Also, to anyone interested in bitcoins... forget about trying to mine them with your hardware or any piece of "mining hardware" you can currently purchase. There are entire datacenters dedicated to mining in foreign countries that you cannot and will not compete with without spending as much money as they have or more on hardware. The cost of mining a bitcoin and breaking even on the cost of getting one has to factor in the cost of the electricity spent to get it with your computer and the price of the hardware used to mine it. The math works out to where you will almost never get the money you spent on the hardware out of it once you've paid for the electricity. I've said for a long time that the people making money in the bitcoin mining industry are the electrical engineers that are designing mining rigs and selling them to people in exchange for bitcoin. If you look at the "price" of a lot of mining rigs they aren't even listed in dollars or another currency, they're almost always listed in terms of bitcoin. Which means the rig that costs 1 bitcoin today might be worth $1000 but if you want to buy it tomorrow you might be paying $2000 for the same hardware. Meanwhile the guy that sold it to someone yesterday for $1000 in bitcoin (1BTC) now has $2000 because the cost of a bitcoin went up. The cost of his hardware design and manufacturing process has stayed the same. There's no shortage of people that can be tricked with this game.