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art and the artists

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by Giving Tree, Jan 20, 2005.

  1. Giving Tree

    Giving Tree Senior Member

    Joined: Nov 26, 2001 Messages: 1,111 Likes Received: 0
    I was talking to a friend last night, and we got into a number of good solid discussions that have been on my mind since we spoke, and so I have decided to see what kind of response I would get from the 12oz.er's since you are my "peers" for the most part, and in a similar field as myself.

    Last night it was decided that ultimately one can not be anything more than what they are. not in the sense that one can not change, but simply the idea that an individual is simply that. (I use the word simply not to belittle what an individual is, but to simplify the "problem") Knowing that one can only be themselves, is it just to say that one should accept themselves and the fact that there may be others that are simply incompatible? (I know, open-ended.. but it has a flow just stay with me)

    also, a person is not static. This accepted, people should be ready to have ever evolving relationships and accept there will be no "constant" in life, as everything is constantly in flux. Within THIS context, should there be an active pursuit in a ultimate goal, or should an individual realize that there will be a number of progressive or changing goals that will be strived for? For example, I used to want to be a pro skater. Now I am 23 and my life goals are different, I still would like this goal, but the desire is far less than when I was 12. Should this be accepted in all facets of life (especially love and friendships?)

    then the "final" question, KNOWING that you are ever in flux, and can only be what you are, how does art and the individual relate? If I draw straight lines because my "self" tells me to do this, is it good or bad art? this pushes art into a more viewer oriented medium, because the work is no longer "controlled" by the artist beyond their own capabilities, but given to the viewer to see if it is "successful," not in the sense that it completes the piece's intended goal, but that the work is "accepted" by other individuals, who again, are constantly in flux.

    I ask this because I make crazy art. I think I'll post some pics later, and I've struggled with my art versus "contemporary" art, and this discussion pushed me to believe that I make what I make because it comes from my hands, and will never be anything else. It challenges me to believe in myself, and have faith in my creating, and know that it is ultimately the most individual work possible, since it is from me, a ever changing and evolving individual, and the work captures a moment in my existence.

    ideas? comments?
  2. Manifesto

    Manifesto Junior Member

    Joined: Sep 1, 2003 Messages: 227 Likes Received: 0
    i kinda agree,
    but i thinkpeople only have talent to a certain extent,
    everyone has goals and aspirations, but it doesnt mean they will be gettin there ever.
    they may try, and be ok at it, but thats about it.

    for example, your skating.
    ive had those dreams as well,.
    but the way i skate, i could never compare to how good the pros are.
    and even among the "pros" there are some pretty shitty pros out there, that dont even come close to the "stars"...

    people are put in their place,
    people try new things because they want to see what niche they fall in where they are considered a "great"...and will continue to try new things until they become so comfortable with it, it becomes second nature.

    another example.
    snowboarder vs the skateboarder.
    im sure there are plenty of people out there who do both, but found that they can do one sport much better than the other...which is why they might be pro in one...and nothing in the other...

    same thing with artists.
    they will try new "styles" out to find their niche, and to find people who recognize their style.
    people will copy each other over and over, but with slight changes
    and that slight change might be "it" for them.
    im sure the artist is perfectly happy with some of their old art as well as their new, but an audience can help secure their style as become what they will make bank on...

    then there are those artists who dont care wat their audience thinks, or maybe just their circle of friends or whatever....

    main point being, that whether youre an artist, dj, rapper, rock star, skater....people will always try new shit just to see their potentials.
    thats why marriage and careers are sometimes are a hard thing to decide on...
    it becomes static.
    but thats what hobbies are for.

    [kinda of a ramble...]sorry.
  3. Giving Tree

    Giving Tree Senior Member

    Joined: Nov 26, 2001 Messages: 1,111 Likes Received: 0
    but that's my point, should we accept that things are truly never static? I heard a lecture yesterday that said that youth should get married at a very young age, this will force you to "grow up" in a sense and thus realize yourself as an "adult" you would then focus ON being an adult and the "quarter life crisis" that is such a buzz would simply be seen as life, thus accepting that there is a constant flux in EVERYTHING. In this lecture they also stated that "breaking up" merely prepares an individual for divorce, and so one should look more to the growing WITHIN the relationship without the "failures."

    this can hold true in art. one should SEE themselves as the artist from the start, realize they ARE great because they ARE themselves, and then realize the art within them to it's full potential rather than try many things that COULD be avenues for greatness and end up feeling lost at 50 when you gave up to early or lacked focus.

    people can say "you can do anything, you can be anything" forever, but at SOME point you have to decide. people for thousands of years were making MAJOR life decisions at 11 and 12 years old, look at barmitzfas..

    I just wonder if the flux is really anything anyone should worry about, and should we just accept that it exists and persist....

    I'm crazy.
  4. Giving Tree

    Giving Tree Senior Member

    Joined: Nov 26, 2001 Messages: 1,111 Likes Received: 0
    it's different in fields where you have to be "selected," and money always becomes an issue. Sure you can't just BE a PRO skater, but you can BE a skater, regardless you're public acceptance for style or ability. and that is where i'm at.. can i just accept i AM artist? or do i really need the community around me and things of that nature to validate me?

    (edit) and this applies to all facets of life.. should we keep chasing the ever evolving dream, or should we grab a hold of things we have and let our change shape it's self? so in a relationship, should we simply be put with someone else and accept them, and grow within the relationship, or should we run the race of searching for an ever changing "ideal" and never truly be satisfied as we are always seeking more or different items?

    no matter how new your car is, time will come that you will want another. society accepts this as norm, but at what point do you accept what you have? or should you?
  5. p@ntyr@ider

    [email protected]@ider Member

    Joined: Apr 4, 2003 Messages: 320 Likes Received: 0
    do what you want. dont hold back. especially w/ the art shit. if what your doing comes from you, who cares what others think, unless your counting on a pay check from them for what your doing....(then i guess you would have to prove yourself and find your spot).
  6. Giving Tree

    Giving Tree Senior Member

    Joined: Nov 26, 2001 Messages: 1,111 Likes Received: 0
    I guess my question isn't as clear or concise as it is in my head.

    if I can break it down...

    why are people so in love with finding the goal, when the goal is ever-changing?

    I want this girl, 2 months ago I couldn't see past my ex girlfriend, but now I am totally enthralled by this new girl.

    I wanted a s10 for sooo long, I got one, now it's ok, but I really want a Mercedes truck.

    I wanted to be a musician, I start to get a record deal and then I wanted to make a different kind of music (and drive thru records sucks my ass.)

    why is it SOO instilled in my being that once I achieve my "goal" THAT will finally make me happy, but the fact is that I will NEVER be fully satisfied as I always want something else?
  7. p@ntyr@ider

    [email protected]@ider Member

    Joined: Apr 4, 2003 Messages: 320 Likes Received: 0
    dam, that sucks, dont know what to tell you other than whatever makes you happy , do it.... unless its killing others..???
  8. Manifesto

    Manifesto Junior Member

    Joined: Sep 1, 2003 Messages: 227 Likes Received: 0
    there are those of us who seek out to have more...
    and there are those who are content with what they have,.

    as artists...we are open to constant stimulation...
    always seeking new ways of entertainment and pleasure.
    acquiring skills, and meeting new challenges.

    almost every skater out there or car enthusiasts has a background in other sports or hobbies...
    they are never just cut and dry people...
    they usually have in depth personalities...
  9. Manifesto

    Manifesto Junior Member

    Joined: Sep 1, 2003 Messages: 227 Likes Received: 0
    even if you did become a pro skater,
    i bet you would be trying ten times harder to make your car dope, or be a ill snowboarder.

    you've already passed the hurdle of becoming a pro skater, now you need something else to conquer.

    same with artists.
    once they become the shit in their eyes and in the public eyes, its time to change up the game with something else that will be just as ill.

    my own self.
    i change cars almost every year,
    i build one up exactly the way i want it,
    show it for the season, get some magazine shots and call it a day.
    sell it that fall...

    do the same thing with the next car.

    ive done this with the past 3 cars ive owned int he past 3 years.
  10. Kr430n5_666

    Kr430n5_666 Banned

    Joined: Oct 6, 2004 Messages: 19,229 Likes Received: 30
    There goes David Brent.......... I must remember to thank him.
  11. SteveAustin

    SteveAustin Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 12, 2002 Messages: 7,042 Likes Received: 2
    the only constant is change and it is necessary for growth.

    there has been some speculation that america's add society is partially to blame for that achieving but feeling incomplacent attitude.
  12. willy.wonka

    willy.wonka Guest

    i hate emo art fags that think they're better than everyone. im not talking about the talented.. im talking about the fans that attend thier artshows...cooler than you, just for being there types

  13. effyoo

    effyoo Elite Member

    Joined: Sep 2, 2002 Messages: 4,703 Likes Received: 0
    i read only one or two posts, but here are my thoughts.

    +it's only art if someone else sees it and likes it. be it through genuine appreciation or hipster peer pressure. or if your dumabss friend says cool.

    +the goal is ever changing. think about it, what else do you have to do except meet and then reset your goals?
    "oh dude, i totally got her number!"
    cool, well, your next goal is to take the next step.

    i'm just trying to say that if you aren't moving forward your're being left behind.
  14. gatita

    gatita Senior Member

    Joined: Feb 24, 2004 Messages: 1,319 Likes Received: 1
    Giving Tree, have you ever read any of Aristotle's book called Nicomachean Ethics? You should, heres a link to it for free http://classics.mit.edu//Aristotle/nicomachaen.1.i.html
    Aristotle's theory of eudamonia reminds me of this thing you keep saying about constantly moving. He believes that one should keep moving towards happiness than staying static in their short lived "happiness." Check it out, its very good and pertains to what youre talking about.
  15. gatita

    gatita Senior Member

    Joined: Feb 24, 2004 Messages: 1,319 Likes Received: 1
    eefyoo, so its kinda like that tree in the woods theory(if a tree falls in the woods...)...

    if you make a piece of 'art', and no one likes it except for you....
    is it really art?

    I think art is in the eye of the creator. If you create something, put your emotion and heart into it, it makes you feel good, then it is art, even if people shun it completely (my humble opinion).