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are we really free?

Discussion in 'News' started by fatalist, Oct 25, 2004.

  1. fatalist

    fatalist Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Mar 10, 2004 Messages: 6,354 Likes Received: 25
    Evidently, every event has a cause and everything that happens is the inevitable result of what has already transpired. Apparently, nothing happens by chance; nothing happens randomly; nothing happens freely. It would seem that everything is determined to happen precisely as it does down to the smallest detail. When the bridge buckles under the excessive load, it bends, bows and breaks necessarily, inevitably and inexorably. Given the massive weight on the span, the bridge simply had to give; it had no choice.

    But what of ourselves? We are part of nature and our behavior involves the movement of our bodies. When you decided to attend the University and register for this class, you acted and moved in the various ways that ultimately resulted in your being where you are today. But if you are part of nature, then your attending the University would seem to be like the buckling of the bridge: determined and inevitable. Indeed your very decision to attend the University also must have been determined and inevitable. But if all you do and all your decisions are threads in nature’s taunt fabric, how can you be free in your actions and responsible for what you do? You and the bridge may both be under stress, but is your subsequent action yet free even though the buckling of the bridge is not?

    Who here supposes he / she is free? This is a topic I'm discussing for the next month in a class of mine.

    if it sounds confussing it probably is...cause i'm confussed on the subject...if so close thread please ^o^
  2. hobo knife

    hobo knife Junior Member

    Joined: May 30, 2004 Messages: 219 Likes Received: 0
    "Call me know, for your free psychic reading..."

    -Miss Cleo

    one word fractals...deh explains er'yting.
  3. Herbivore

    Herbivore Senior Member

    Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Messages: 1,431 Likes Received: 1
    i wouldn't compare a bridge collapsing to someone signing up for a university. one happens because it has to, the other by choice and freewill. the bridge doesn't decide to collapse, gravity and physics force it to. the things i do are determined by me and my conscious, not predetermined by fate, or any other external factors (maybe influenced by them, but not ultimately determined by them)......... what?
  4. hobo knife

    hobo knife Junior Member

    Joined: May 30, 2004 Messages: 219 Likes Received: 0
    two more words "chaos theory"

    What class is this for?
  5. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623
    this is a question philosophy has been trying to answer since it's inception.

    i'm operating under the assumption that i'm free.
    after all those drugs, all that graffiti, all those missed oppurtunities, i certainly haven't been controlled by any other person than myself.

    my own decisions have been informed, but ultimately, my own.
    i went against my parents to satisfy my own time line and life goals
    now i'm going against society's definition of success to find happiness.

    as far as whether or not we're all part of some "master plan" i have no idea.
    being hit by a car and nearly dying two years ago was a pretty fucking random event, since the guy who hit me was runnning a red light way in excess of the speed limit, and i was only in that intersection because i was lazy getting out of bed that morning and i'd driven rather than ridden to work on a bike, and i was looking for a parking place. that was the third time i'd circled the block and wham!
    however, it changed my life for the better, since i managed to live through it.

    i personally don't think there is a master plan.
    i think most events operate under a cause/effect system, but nothing caused me to become and remain vegetarian for ten years. it was a spur of the moment decision that i stuck with and still cannot totally explain.
  6. fatalist

    fatalist Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Mar 10, 2004 Messages: 6,354 Likes Received: 25
  7. Jimmy Jump

    Jimmy Jump Member

    Joined: Jun 8, 2004 Messages: 665 Likes Received: 0
    You are a slave to fate only if you choose to be. The same applies to debt.
  8. bodice_ripper

    bodice_ripper Elite Member

    Joined: May 10, 2000 Messages: 3,195 Likes Received: 25
    Of course we're not free. But give enough hicks some little symbols to cling to ("Duh, I got my guns, that's the most important thing...") and you can pretend we are.....
  9. porque

    porque Senior Member

    Joined: May 5, 2002 Messages: 1,844 Likes Received: 0
    ...i assume this is for a philosophy course...what are you reading for it?...as symbols said this is one of those age old philosophical questions, in earlier times it was usually used within the context of religion and more significantly, an omnicient being...since then the problem has gotten much broader...
  10. metallix

    metallix Elite Member

    Joined: Oct 7, 2001 Messages: 2,955 Likes Received: 1
    u have to find something that makes you free and do it
  11. Hippopotamus

    Hippopotamus Junior Member

    Joined: Oct 10, 2004 Messages: 118 Likes Received: 0
    this thread motivates me to go catch tags, peace out
  12. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    if what you're trying to get at is 'am i free to not post my tits', then the answer is no, you are not free.
  13. justaname

    justaname Member

    Joined: May 18, 2003 Messages: 807 Likes Received: 23
    i didn't really read whatever you typed down but i would say we are not free. we are free compare to many other countries but we are not free. who will ever be free from whatever they want to be free from?
  14. SteveAustin

    SteveAustin Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 12, 2002 Messages: 7,042 Likes Received: 2
    everyone is free to do what they want.

    however you are not free from the consequences.
  15. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5
    i guess the definition of freedom is different from person to person.

    we have free thought, free will. there isn't a 'wizard of oz' behind a giant curtain pulling levers and determining every little action/reaction. however, i do believe in fate to some extent.

    over-analyzing never really solves anything. i think it only leads ot confusion and insanity.