Anybody want to be a millionaire?

Investing is definately the way to build wealth. Staying out of debt allows you to use your income to guarantee wealth in the future. In my opinion, credit cards are a way of keeping poor people subjugated economically. Do NOT use credit cards.

If you absolutely must have a card for convenience, use a DEBIT card. Put $500 or so in the bank, get a debit card on that account, and that way you are only spending money that you already have.

Banks and other financial institutions charge young people serious interest, 16%, 18%, up to about 24% if your account becomes delinquent. This means that for ever $100 you spend, TWENTY-FOUR DOLLARS is going into the pocket of some dick-sucking BANKER.

Don't fall into their trap. Do business in cash only. (When I say "cash," I don't mean actual dollar bills, I'm talking about money you have IN THE BANK, as opposed to credit cards--which is borrowed money.)

Live within your means. If you want something expensive and you have a regular income, you can save up the money to buy it pretty quickly as long as you are not burdened by a lot of debt.

MAKE A BUDGET AND STICK TO IT. Allot money for each and every expense that you have. Do NOT spend money earmarked for rent or utilities or something like that on unnecessary bullshit.

If you invest just $50 a week ($200 a month) in a good, solid mutual fund (or several different mutual funds that return at least 6% interest) at age 16, by the time you are 65 years old, it will be worth over $830,000. Obviously, if your mutual funds return better than 6%, it will be worth more.

If you bump that weekly investment from $50 to $61, it will be worth $1,004,000 (that's ONE MILLION FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS) by age 65.

You do not have to be rich to do this. I have friends that are full-time railriders who fly a sign for a living who are making well over fifty bucks a DAY. They could easily, EASILY become millionaires IF THEY CHOSE TO DO SO. The problem is that they choose to drink and smoke up that fifty bucks a day, instead of investing it. Shit, they could make fifty, drink up forty, put ten bucks a day in their investment account and STILL be millionaires.

Somebody with a steady job that puts ONE DOLLAR AND TWENTY-FIVE CENTS PER HOUR WORKED into an investment account could be a millionaire. And if you put two, or three bucks for every hour worked you'd be a millionaire a lot sooner than age 65.

When I was a stupid person back in my teens and early twenties, I was making $3.75 an hour. Even on those low wages, I was budgeting $40 a week for booze, pot and cigarettes. That's $2,080 a year, or about a dollar for every hour I worked. If I had INVESTED that money in mutual funds paying at least 6% from age 19 to age 26, I would have well over $325,000 in investments now, EVEN IF I STOPPED INVESTING AT AGE 26.

Surely you guys can understand this. INVEST YOUR MONEY EARLY. It doesn't matter if you are an alcoholic, broke-dick stoner or whatever. You could be fucking mentally retarded and STILL wind up a MILLIONAIRE, if you invest $1.25 of your pay for every hour you work.

Turn off 12 oz., RIGHT NOW, and go online and find a good mutual fund investment firm and start investing money RIGHT NOW. DO NOT WAIT. Cut up all your credit cards, pay off the accounts and never borrow bullshit money again in your life. Do not borrow money for cars. Pay CASH for good, used cars. NO CAR PAYMENTS. Pay cash.

Live within your means. Do not borrow money for anything except real estate. I would prefer you buy real estate for cash too, but people are so used to paying a house note, like rent, that they can't accept buying real estate for cash. The only reason it's okay to buy real estate with a loan is that you want a FIFTEEN YEAR, FIXED-RATE LOAN. Do NOT accept anything but a TRUE fixed-rate loan, otherwise, the bank will jack up your house payment whenever they fucking feel like it. Obviously, there is no such thing as an "adjustable" fixed-rate loan. Fixed-rate means just that: FIXED. It can't go up or down.

Try to stop thinking of borrowing money in terms of "Can I afford the payments?" Think instead in terms of "What is the total amount that this will cost me over the long term?" Borrowing money jacks up the total cost several times more than the original cost.

Being completely, absolutely, totally out of debt is a wonderful feeling. You are FREE. If you have no debt now, DON'T GO INTO DEBT. Pay for college up front, for cash. If that means going to school for a year and working for a year, so what? Getting your degree will take eight years instead of four. Big deal. At the end of the eight years, you'll have a degree and NO DEBT, instead of a student loan for $40,000.

:idea:

That's cute Kabar, but welcome to reality. I don't care what your budget was. $50.00 a week was a completely unreasonable amount of money for me to consider saving through most of college. I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs now, and even $50.00 a month would be pushing it until I can get student loans again, at which time it would be better put towards paying those off anyway.

Your plan is sensible, but despite how much money you think people can spare... well, I'd rather eat.

Telling Kabar "Welcome to reality" is a funny thing to do.

all good advice kabar.

I'm currently living broke in order to get the debt paid off.

I'm paying about $800 a month towards debt repayment.

Imagine an extra $800 in your pocket, or in a savings account?

Luckily the company has been doing a 401k program so I've

got more in the RSP plan than I owe on the Line of Credit... which is good.

I plan on being debt free by the end of next spring.

once again .... everyone should read Kabar's post.

Biggus:

think of this... if you have it set up to put $50 into an RSP,

that money goes in BEFORE TAXES. If you make $50 and

then cash the check, it's more like $40 that you put towards

paying down the debt. You've just lost ten dollars to tax.

right, unless you are like me

and in order to stay out of debt

had to work

and spend every last dime

on SURVIVAL

sometimes there is no extra miney

actually, there is way less than extra

and a person is simply trying to get by on the bare minimum so they can live.

when a person is in a position to save, of course it is the smart thing to do

and being smart about saving is important

you can't just plop money into stocks and hope for the best

prosecting can be good at a young age, when you still have time to bounce back from mistakes you make

but let's not forget, people lost life savings on enron, tyco, and a host of other greedy companies who ran their account books like their personal coffers

but seriously kabar

how the fuck can you talk fiscal responsibility and be a republican?

if our government even had two cents to rub together, we might not be going up shit's creek.

does every kabar thread get pulled into partisian bickering?

oh, poor kabar

he never gets a break aorund here does he?

maybe he should spend some time at the local elk lodge instead of hanging on a graffiti forum with a bunch of smart asses that he's tried to son

it's his own fault

no one gets away with that much holier than thou

i know more than you about life

shit wihtout taking some of it back

there are also a LOT of threads already on credit, budgeting, saving, and money

http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/index.php...topic=15409&hl=

http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/index.php...wtopic=8668&hl=

http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/index.php...topic=48629&hl=

http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/index.php...wtopic=6016&hl=

those are just the ones i found in three minutes.

yeah this post sucks....fuck saving money...get stoned paint and have fun...who the fuck wants to be rich...that shit is weak....fuck a retirement plan...just get old and die....

^ wow..... you 13?

Another point you made about not worrying how long college takes... you've been out of the college loop for awhile I'm assuming, but what major universities do is this.

1) I take a math class, say MATH 101, get a 4.0, freshman year.

2) I take a bunch of other classes that required MATH 101 to take in the next couple of years.

3) I take 2 years off school to save money. It has now been 5 years since I took MATH 101.

4) University "restructures" freshman required curriculum. MATH 101 doesn't exist anymore. MATH 103 is now the equivalent.

5) University expires my grade for MATH 101 and no longer credits it towards my degree. Despite having taken many more advanced math classes, I now have to take the new MATH 103 class in order to graduate.

Your 8 year degree would last forever.

Another problem, paying tuition as you go with no loans. I could do that at the school I'm at now, State funded school, parent an employee so I get a discount, very cheap, no problem. Couldn't do it if my parent wasn't working there. Out of state students would have no hope of finding off-and-on jobs that would pay them enough to cover an $8k a semester tuition while still paying rent and utilities and eating... and my school is CHEAP compared to what's out there.

One of the places I was accepted out of high school was Carnegie Mellon, the #1 ranked computer science school in the country. Their tuition was running around $28,000 a year at the time. If you think that anything but community college is going to be affordable in the situation you describe.... well, your area must pay entry level disposable workers much better than mine does.

Kid, this shiet is so unrealistic. I mean i jus wanna smoke weed all day ery day kid, mad bowls yo(it's free)!! Den I paint mad bombz, but I barely have money for food to survive!! Wait, did I contradict myself? Nah...

Wait again, my post didn't contain the word "SURVIVE" enough for emphasis, as if I could spontaneously combust at any moment.

Survive kid, I just need to make a living and survive, you know, survive to survive. Yea that covers it.

grow weed..and steal everything else...its fun

^ he's definitely not 13 yet, give him a couple years.

If you are a teenager and still living at home, your parents are paying for most of your real expenses. If you are homeless, and live in the third boxcar past the abandoned liquor store, you have no expenses beyond food.

How much is a pack of cigarettes? $2.50? A six-pack is what, three or four bucks? For the price of two packs of smokes and a six-pack a day, you could be investing $50 a week.

I know that a lot of you guys are just too immature to understand or appreciate this, but I'm angling for the handfull of 12 Oz.ers out there who are beyond the "childish-teenager-it's-not-my-fault-I-didn't-do-nothing" stage and have moved on to the "It's-my-life-and-if-I-don't-make-the-right-decisions-who-will?" stage. The problem with this is that while the 13-or-14-year-olds are screwing around trying to get their heads out of their asses, they are losing thousands and thousands of dollars in FUTURE INVESTMENT INCOME.

When you spend a dollar for a Pepsi or something, you are not just spending one dollar. You are spending that dollar and ALL THE INCOME THAT IT COULD HAVE EARNED YOU, IF YOU HAD INVESTED IT.

One dollar, invested in a mutal fund at even a paltry 6% that compounds interest bi-monthly, will earn $16,531.25 over 50 years.

That's SIXTEEN THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED AND THIRTY -ONE DOLLARS. That's one expensive fucking Pepsi, eh?

In fact, if you ONLY invested $2,000 a year between the ages of 19 and 26, and STOPPED investing right there, you would still earn $1,144,000 by age 65. But someone who STARTED investing at age 26, AND INVESTED $2,000 EVERY SINGLE YEAR BETWEEN AGE 19 AND AGE 65 would only earn $766,000.

But of course, Mr. Age 26 would earn $766,000 more than Mr. Socialist Dumbass, who spends those years going to demonstrations, riding freight trains and trying to convince low-functioning stoners to become anarchist revolutionaries.

It is the TIME VALUE OF MONEY that makes the difference. Those years that people are immature teenage rebels are costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars because of the "Let's get fucked up and go bomb the neighborhood" syndrome.

And by the way, a $2,000 A YEAR investment is only $38.46 a week. Shit, that won't even buy pizza and beer for one good Saturday night. DON'T TELL ME YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO INVEST YOU LAME ASS FUCK. You could beg $38.46 on a STREET CORNER every week, and STILL BE A MILLIONAIRE. You could collect aluminum cans. You could wash windows downtown. You could mow lawns. You could get a part time job at McDonalds. SHIT, JUST GET $38.46 SOMEHOW. It's chump change. JUST GET IT.

But you have to invest it when YOU ARE A KID. Say, 13, 14, 15 years old. EVERY SINGLE WEEK. And the earlier you start, the richer you will be. NOW who needs to wake up to reality?

... Fucking wow. I'll let symbols go this round, if she feels like it.

I'll be sure to go back in time to when I was 13, get a job making a few grand a year, invest it all, and then I'll be able to enjoy it all correctly when I'm a bitter old man who had no childhood.

Here's my tale of woe...or, maybe, "whoa" would be better. Put on your irony shades, this one is a motherfucker. And, no, I'm not bitching, I'm over it. I learned from all this, and I wouldn't be who I am today if it hadn't been for all the curve balls life has tossed my way. Anyhoo....

Back in 1984, when I was 10, my grandfather (mom's dad) gave me a check for five grand, for college. It was supposed to be put in trust. Well, he gave it to my mom...more on that later.

Mom ended up with leukemia a year later. Six months after that, we got evicted from our home of seven years so the property could be sold to speculators.

(Ironic twist No. 1- My house was where the dirt lot is at the corner of Roxford and Bradley, center page. This shot was taken in 2005...hmmm.)

So, we were kind of fucked. Once again, grandpa saves the day, with an interest-free loan to my mom, stepdad sister and I to buy a house. (Yes, he was Loaded.) After the house closes escrow, Mom died, and now it's stepdad, sis, and me.

When we were tying up all my mother's loose ends, I mentioned the college money. So, my stepdad goes down to the bank, and says, "What's up?" Well, what was up was SEVEN DOLLARS left in the account. I don't remember her spending the money, so I really don't have a clue as to where it is. And, neither do they. No liens or tax debt- poof, it was GONE, and dead folks tell no tales.

So, I still have a bit of money coming to me from Grandpa on mom's side someday, when he passes, I'm told. Plus I'm also told, in a very indirect way, that once I turn 18, I have one third ownership of the new house along with my sister and stepdad. This isn't to mention my other side of the family, who are also considerably well-off...there was a clause in my mom's will stating that I was going to recieve money from them upon their deaths as well. It didn't sound right then, and well, it wasn't true, as you'll see.

So, mom's dad has a stroke a couple months later, and ends up in a convalecent hospital until his death in 1990. He died broke. My other grandpa died six months after my mom, but remember, BOTH of them had to pass before anything came my way. (Let's just say 1985 wasn't a great year for me, in any case. And, before some asshole chimes in, I would have MUCH rather have had my family than the money, thank you very much.)

In 1987, stepdad flips out, due to a serious cocaine problem, and kicks me and my sister out, claiming "he can't handle it." This is funny, seeing as how he begged us to live with him after all the shit went down. She was 20, so she went her own way. I went to live with my dad, who I hardly knew, and between the two of us, we didn't have any money. He had never really been a parent, for that matter, especially to a 13 year old who was just a little shellshocked from the last three years of his life.

The next ten years were spent getting high, traveling, learning things the hard way, and gaining all the experiences I plan to turn into a book someday. (I need to save SOMETHING to write about, sorry.)

Fast forward to 2003. After a long illness, my grandmother (dad's mom, and who ended up being one of the best things to ever happen to me) passes away. The will is tied up in probate for a year, but eventually, everything is settled, and what did I get in the end?

A thousand bucks. I didn't really want it, I would have much rather had my grandma around, honestly.

I'm sure someone is dying to know, "Why didn't you just save on your own?" Well, simple. I don't make much, and I never have. The Bay Area is one of the most expensive places to live ON EARTH, and even though I have seven years of experience in the legal field, after taxes I take home less than a hundred bucks a day. This is compounded by the fact that, instead of downsizing, the scumbags I work for have cut my wages by 20% over the past year. They've justified this by saying that they can't afford to lose me, but they're losing money right now, so...I get the smelly end of the plunger. I'm BARELY making it. I'm in debt for the first time in my life, and my rent is late this month for the first time in five years. Getting a different job in the same field is not an option since attrition in the legal support field has been an ongoing trend, due to electronic court filing and databases such as Westlaw and Lexis-Nexis slowly making my current position obsolete over the past five years. And, although I'm no scholar, I'm considering going back to school for the first time in 14 years simply to get some kind of retraining and either a degree or certificate so I can get on with my life. I want to get married someday and buy a house (never saw THAT coming), but the reality is that I don't sell drugs (anymore) and I don't play lotto, and thus it remains a dream, for now. Needless to say, I'm looking into getting grants and loans right now, and trying to wrap my head around the idea of being a 32 year old freshman.

Kabar, I think your advice is well-meant, and if some of these kids take it, you'll be doing them the biggest favor of their lives. It just doesn't apply to my current situation. I have no doubts that I'll make it, I'm a fighter and I've survived much worse, as you can see here.

Maybe this could serve as a cautionary tale for kids who want to just "kick it" and do their own thing while they're young and still have the luxury of enjoying their youth. You can have fun and work, AND save. I know plenty of people who have done just that, and now they have options I ought to have, but I didn't, and now I'm telling you how it might feel if you don't. It's your call, though. Think about it.

P.S. I'm currently investigating who exactly is on the title of the house that I supposedly have a 1/3 interest in. If I am on the title, I'm putting a lien on the motherfucker. I might just go ahead and try to do it anyway, I'm looking into my options there, as well. I haven't spoken to my stepdad in almost twenty years for obvious reasons, and my sister is living somewhere in Alabama. I'm trying to track her ass down too, so I can get the story from her...so, maybe this will all work out for me in the end...but, life has taught me the value of "guarded optimism".

a pack of cigarettes in my city is NO LESS than $4.50, the last time i got a sixer it was six bucks ...i also am 29 years old.

not 13, 14, 15...and last time i checked, kids that age weren't buying beer

ahhh, reading kabar's fantasy.

i don't know exactly what type of investment portfolio is going to provide such guaranteed returns

the days of going into the stock market and expecting a 3-6% safe return on your investment are long over.

even 'safer' investing has a lot of risks these days, becasue we live in such a volatile economy. i have read that treasury bonds might even get into trouble one day soon because of our national debt and our increaisn reliance on foreign boroowing.

if another foreign power decided to pull the rug out form our finances, a lot of those invested dollars might dry up quickly.

i've seen people lose thousands on investing, so i don't know why you would encourage little kids to do anything except SAVE their money. honestly, it's more intellligent for children to save and wait until they are adults to make decisions about investing

also, if these kids have no expenses, great, it's true.

but where are they getting this extra money?

i know these kids of 13, 14, 15 are not buying a SIX PACK AND CIGARETTES

and where are they working?

minimum wage hasn't increased in like, over a decade.

it's about 5.50/hr

anyway, the long and the short of it is

if you want independence and financial security, WORK.

SAVE your money

don't spend it on stupid shit you don't need, like the latest electronic organizer or PS2 game.

learn to budget and not spend up all your money before you can get some more.

don't get into debt

..and don't delude yourself into thinking this shit wil make you a millionaire.

it just will prevent you from ever having to go bankrupt, or wonder how you are going to pay for X emergency, or come up with a downpayment on a house.

also, STAY IN SCHOOL and OFF DRUGS

:innocent:

Investment is a good idea if you can manage to, but I don't think investing in stocks is a very good idea right now. Except maybe in oil or gold or something of that nature. Other than that our economy has been plummeting, only kept afloat with foreign money.

Even mutual funds which used to be safe are succumbing to corruption. Many funds I know of, including some of the most prestigious, have become the dumping grounds for junk stocks for the more shrewd and connected investors. I would be investing in Chinas stock market personally.

Even 401k plans can fuck you over, depending on how they tax you (watch out for that shit), a Roth IRA is better, but remain on guard.

I know of the rule of 72, and the importance of keeping ahead of inflation and all that jazz, but I'm not really qualified to speak on this subject, I only know what I know.... Hell, I can't even get a place to live.

Maybe someday I can put all this knowledge to good use, but I have more pressing concerns for the time being... And yes, I know, time is money.

I think people are skipping over one of kabar's main points.

Debt is a scary and crippling thing.

I'm in debt to the tune of about 7K (interesting number)

and it seems that I keep paying and it stays the same.

I try to pay back about 800 a month, and it just seems like

I'm left broke and dying for that next paycheck.

That's life for most people I guess.

I know how happy I will be when the debt is gone.

Kabar talks about having financial freedom, which is

vrey important to me and most people I know. The

idea of having rent paid an 15K in the bank and 10k

in an RSP would feel like heaven.

I want to be there in the next 2 years.

You should only pay on the principle RumPuncher. Paying on the interest is like throwing your money away.

Another point I wanted to make is that if you really want to invest go for real estate. It's pretty safe, usually is. And you are getting real value for your money and not some abstract numbers and potential incomes.

If I could do it all over again I would never have gone to college. Those loans have fucked me over for 10 years and counting. Instead I would have built up my credit (before college fucked it all up) and gotten a loan for some property(s). Preferably something with mutiple units seperately metered, then you could have money flowing in to pay the loan, and maybe even a little something for yourself. That's like getting property and a source of income for free.

Rum Puncher is definately on the tip. YES, being DEBT FREE is the key to it.

1.) If you have no debt, don't assume any. Credit cards are the Devil. DO NOT ACCEPT ONE. Especially for young kids, the temptation to go thousands of dollars into debt for some stupid ass shit like rims for your car is too great.

2.) Save up until you have at least a one thousand dollar emergency fund. Put it in a savings account. It will be nice and safe, you won't be tempted to spend it, and you'll be able to get it out any time you really need it.

3.) Any credit cards? CUT THE MOTHERFUCKERS UP, RIGHT NOW, TODAY. Never use a credit card again, ever. In your whole life.

4.) Make a list of all debt (if you have any) smallest balance first. Pay minimum payments on all but the smallest one. If you cannot do that (no $$$) STOP PAYING all of them except the smallest one. Put every extra dime you have on the smallest debt until it is retired.

Then start on Debt #2, and repeat over and over until you have paid it all off.

5.) Once you have a handle on the debt payments, start saving up until you have $500 in an investment account. Put it into mutual funds, they are the safest. Better yet, put it into several different mutual funds. Aim for $50 a week. If you can't do $50, do whatever you CAN do. $100,000 at retirement is a shitload better than NOTHING. And FORGET Social Insecurity. The Government sucks dick, they will never be able to deliver on SS. WE ARE ON OUR OWN.

6.) If you are married, have kids, etc. take out some serious term life insurance (NOT WHOLE LIFE--Whole Life is a fucking rip-off. Term Life only.) You need ten times your annual income worth of insurance in case you drop dead and your family has to go on without you. If you can't do ten times, do five. Do as much as you can. $50,000 worth of insurance is better than nothing, I guess. Make a will, too, and specify where you want to be buried, etc. A burial insurance policy for you and the wife is a good idea too. You can't imagine what a huge hassle this sort of shit is if you are a survivor of somebody who died. Spare your family all that shit--take care of it yourself, now.

7.) If you buy a house, buy it witrh a 15-year, FIXED RATE mortgage. Better yet, buy it for CASH. If you already own a home, pay double and triple payments until you have paid it off. You will save yourself THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of dollars by paying double payments. The second payment COMES OFF THE PRINCIPAL. If you have a thirty-year mortgage, roughly the first fifteen years is 99% INTEREST PAYMENTS. Fuck that. Pay that bitch off EARLY.

8.) If you are going to college, or have a kid that's going to college, PAY CASH. Don't take out student loans, despite the low interest rate. I spent ten years paying off student loans. Could I have paid cash? Maybe not, but I'll never know, I didn't even try. Going to a super-expensive, Ivy League school is a big waste of money. Pick a quality State University in your state (no out-of-state tuition) and get busy. If you have any free time, spend it LOOKING FOR SCHOLARSHIP MONEY. Scholarships, yes. Student loans, no.

Live frugally. Live within your means. If you do not make enough money, work more, get a second job or a part-time job. Start a little business, mowing lawns or building web sites. NO DEBT, NO DEBT, NO DEBT, NO DEBT, NO DEBT, NO DEBT, NO DEBT.

BE DEBT FREE. INVEST EARLY, IN HIGH SCHOOL. PAY CASH FOR WHAT YOU BUY. IF YOU CAN'T PAY CASH, YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT!

all good points, but here's something I should add;

Credit cards are ESSENTIAL to building your credit report.

You dont need to use them, but you should have them.

I work with a guy who's got a household income of over 100K

(between him and his wife) and they couldn't get a loan because

neither of them ever had credit cards. Sure it's good they never

got into credit card debt, but what bank is going to loan you 350K

just because you can pay your phone bills on time? Having good

credit will help you, but being a slave to credit will kill you.

I could probably walk into a bank and get a loan big enough to buy a house today.

I could borrow over 20k right now without asking the anyone at the bank,

but that's only because of years of paying bills and extablishing a solid credit report.

I do not agree that credit cards are essential. I could not care less about my credit report, because I intend to never borrow another dime. I was 26 years old before I ever borrowed any money. I borrowed $2250 to buy a used Volkswagen Rabbit. It was your standard car-note deal. I should have bought the Rabbit for CASH.

Then I borrowed $1400 from Household Finance so I could buy scuba diving equipment when I was in the Marines and living in Dana Point, CA.

I was glad to have the scuba gear, but I wound up paying a lot more for it than I really had to. What I should have done, since I was a Marine corporal on a fixed income that wasn't adequate to meet my needs, was GO GET ANOTHER JOB in my off duty hours. I eventually got a job pumping gas. It wasn't any great shakes as a job goes, but I could have easily have saved up $1400.

quick question

i have a friend that bought a townhouse and just continues to pay the minimum every month towards the mortgage. i told him that he should pay that off asap but he says that he doesnt want to pay off the mortgage because then he would own it and therefore have to pay property tax. he plans on remortgaging the townhouse if he ever gets close to paying it off. :huh2: am i missing something?

sorry kabar, but if you think you can buy a house for cash, you're dreaming.

I do agree with you that you shouldn't buy things on credit,

and you'll end up paying more in the long run if you do,

but the idea of having 300K+ for a house purchase is just

way too far fetched for most people. You're talking about

a scuba set-up that's worth just over a grand, not a house

that's worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

you need a good credit report to buy your first home and the

only way to really build that initial credit report is by using a

credit card and / or a line of credit. Credit is necessary, credit debt is not.

THREE HUNDRED GRAND! Holy shit, Rum Puncher, what, are you kin to the Rockefellers? Believe me, perfectly decent housing can be had a lot cheaper than $300,000. A WHOLE lot cheaper.

I did buy the house I'm in using a V.A. loan, but I really didn't need to. You're correct, you will need some kind of credit record if you want to buy a house with a bank loan. Thirteen years ago, my house sold (to me) for $64,000. Today it's worth over $90,000, but that's still a far cry from $300,000.

Buying property for cash is not as far-fetched as you seem to think. Let's say a college-educated married couple has a combined income of $100,000 per year. If they scrimped and saved, and lived in a super El Cheapo apartment for five years, they could probably raise $100,000 in five years. If they REALLY, REALLY scrimped and saved they might raise $150,000. IF THEY HAD NO DEBT.

What kills people is that they have rather entitled expectations of life, and no financial self-discipline.

Do you "need" a new car? NO. Do you "need" to go out clubbing? NO. Do you "need" a big screen TV? NO. Live cheap. Save up your money. Forego vacations, fancy clothes, big cars., etc., etc. CUT UP YOUR CREDIT CARDS---ALL OF THEM.

Save up the purchase price, and then DRIVE A HARD BARGAIN. Cash is King, baby. Real estate agents fall to their knees when you tell them you have $200,000 in cash with which to buy a house. BE PICKY.

It can be done. It's just that most people are too pussy to be able to do it successfully. Most people are slaves to credit card debt.

geez, i don't know if i would say people are 'too pussy' to be able to do it...

you're preaching some good common sense advice, but some of it is a little too

theoretical and in practice is pretty rare. i agree it would be great if young people today could focus, work extremely hard and exhibit unbelievable discipline with long term gains in sight without being apart of the system.