Jump to content

american politics 2016 elections thread


breakfast menu

Recommended Posts

This forum is supported by the 12ozProphet Shop, so go buy a shirt and help support!
This forum is brought to you by the 12ozProphet Shop.
This forum is brought to you by the 12oz Shop.
  • Replies 134
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Yeah, nothing worth looking at on the Reps side. I'd like to see Hilary in because of her Asia-focus and simply because she's a wooza.

 

I don't mind conservatism in regards to small govt and free markets but that's about it. So anything that weakens social conservatism is a good thing in my books. Lastly, Hilary has foreign policy experience and when compared with most others that's a massive benefit, especially at a time of serious strategic challenges (Mid East/Iran/IS, Russia, China, etc...).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed that Hilary is just another career politician and that's not often a good thing. But hey, Trump isn't a career politician and he's a fucking clown. It would be interesting to see what a Trump presidency would look like, just to find out what he would actually do. Remember how Obama said he'd pull US troops out of the Mid East, how he'd shut down Gitmo, etc. etc. Yeah, well, all leaders are constrained by reality when they have to put their money where their mouth is and be responsible for the decisions. It's too easy making grandiose statements and unreasonable promises from the stump, when they're in office things usually drop back a few notches in terms of their toughness and resoluteness to bring about change. He'd probably just blame an uncooperative congress and obstructionist this and that....

 

I actually don't know much of Bernie, I guess I haven't paid attention as I feel that Hilary will get the nom...., for better or for worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pulling for hillary, she has more experience navigating domestic and foreign political landscapes and we know her history. Bernie is your typical political new comer who makes alot of bold statements and how hes gonna make changes, but has little experience coalition building and would end up alienating his supporters. He would be a 1 term president. The right wing candidates are ridiculous, they truly don't advocate traditional republican economic and social values. Many are extremists that go to far to get attention, but wouldn't get any meaningful legislation past. Also they would most likly fuck up foreign relations more than they already are

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Obama administration confirmed for the first time Friday that Hillary Clinton's unsecured home server contained closely guarded government secrets, censoring 22 emails with material requiring one of the highest levels of classification. The revelation comes just three days before the Iowa presidential nominating caucuses in which Clinton is a candidate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, that was a pretty dumb move, from the little bit I know of it.

 

I'm not so sure that Hillary will be 4 more years of Obama, I think it might be simplifying things a little too much. There are some pretty fundamental differences:

  • Younger black male - older white female
  • Single term new-comer - former first lady and secretary of state

Straight away their fundamental differences reduce the likelihood that they will view and approach the same issues in the same ways. They haven't always agreed on policy either, which suggests that there is daylight between them on particular issues as well. I think Hillary would be a bit more of a deal maker than Barry was and I think she would probably be a little more decisive and active than he was in some areas as well - mostly regarding foreign policy. I get the feeling that Hillary would listen more to her advisers on strategic matters than Barry was known to have done.

 

To be honest, this is not well researched or learned opinion, bit more gut than head, but it's the way I'm leaning on that issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Her center left deal making would further the blur between what the two parties of our failing system are meant to represent.

 

In your view is that a good or bad thing?

 

Not my view in particular but an interesting one none the less: Politics is the art of the possible, the attainable - the art of the next best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the idea that 2 parties can possibly represent a nation of 300 million people is ludicrous. That the line between those parties (in action, not words) is impossible to read aside from a few key issues (gay marriage, abortion, war) is a very painful joke. All this to me reinforces that American democracy itself is a joke. Glorified mob-rule with those at the top manipulating the masses to vote against their own interests.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starting a party isn't the problem. I'm a huge fan of socialism and there are plenty of parties that represent my ideals.

 

Breaking the stranglehold of Ds and Rs, and having 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 20th parties represented what needs to happen. They've created a false dichotomy of choice, and we're forced to accept it. By voting for independents we gamble in taking away votes from whom we might view as being a lesser of two evils.

 

My hope is that Cruz gets the R, Trump runs independently, Bloomberg throws in too, and Bernie/O'malley get the D ticket. Pretty sure that is unrealistic, but a grown as man is entitled to dream on occasion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starting a party isn't the problem. I'm a huge fan of socialism and there are plenty of parties that represent my ideals.

 

Breaking the stranglehold of Ds and Rs, and having 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 20th parties represented what needs to happen. They've created a false dichotomy of choice, and we're forced to accept it. By voting for independents we gamble in taking away votes from whom we might view as being a lesser of two evils.

 

My hope is that Cruz gets the R, Trump runs independently, Bloomberg throws in too, and Bernie/O'malley get the D ticket. Pretty sure that is unrealistic, but a grown as man is entitled to dream on occasion.

 

there are a number of 3rd parties in the united states - they just don't get the play they deserve. the political/party infrastructure in a lot of states is engineered to force people into R/D/INDEPENDENT, and largely make it harder for genuine third parties to play. this is at a time when american affiliation /self-identification with the two parties is at its lowest EVER.

 

i believe in casting votes for third parties if they align with your own ideals, have done it before, and will likely do it again.

 

 

Will be pushing for Bernie in my local primaries.

 

Hillary is more of the same.

 

Trump is a fucking asshole.

 

Cruz is a fucking asshole.

 

will also be pushing for bernie as i'd like the dems to go in that direction. naysayers: if bernie does well, you could see elizabeth warren on a ticket in 2020. she hasn't endorsed anyone in this election for good reason - i don't imagine that she will.

 

And scary as hell

 

yes.

 

If Hillary wins the nom, I'll reluctantly support her with her Iraq War-voting, Wall Street-loving ass.

 

this is understandable.

the iraq war issue is haunting her now but in the wake of 9/11 an enormous majority of americans wanted war/violent international intervention to CATCH THEM TERR-RISTS! even dems. hindsight is 20/20, of course. so i don't really fault her for that vote as senator.

 

the wall street issue - and her defenses invoking 9/11 - is pretty inexcusable. thankfully i think most voters see through it.

 

I'm pulling for hillary, she has more experience navigating domestic and foreign political landscapes and we know her history. Bernie is your typical political new comer who makes alot of bold statements and how hes gonna make changes, but has little experience coalition building and would end up alienating his supporters. He would be a 1 term president. The right wing candidates are ridiculous, they truly don't advocate traditional republican economic and social values. Many are extremists that go to far to get attention, but wouldn't get any meaningful legislation past. Also they would most likly fuck up foreign relations more than they already are

 

as president, bernie would have to resort to executive actions to get any of his agenda items done. even if dems win back the senate (and they could - my money's on yes at this point, but barely) they won't wrestle control of the house for at least 8 years. but i think there's still a substantial amount he could do as president on the domestic front that would be achievement-worthy - family leave, etc.

 

as president, HRC has said she'd be open to executive actions to create mandatory gun buybacks. fuck outtahere.

 

i'm center left but fear/reject the democratic hysteria on guns ("assault weapons," a convenient term that can essentially mean whatever you want). HRC and o'malley both seek sweeping changes regardless of any actual understanding of guns - look at the laws o'malley passed as MD governor for a sampling of how reality-free his gun proposals are.

 

bernie's different and comes from a gun state. i'm with it. there's a reasonable middle ground on guns that we can reach as a nation. at least, i think there is.

 

The Obama administration confirmed for the first time Friday that Hillary Clinton's unsecured home server contained closely guarded government secrets, censoring 22 emails with material requiring one of the highest levels of classification. The revelation comes just three days before the Iowa presidential nominating caucuses in which Clinton is a candidate.

 

i think it's safe to say that her handling of this issue is a good indicator of how another clinton presidency would go. the clintons truly play by their own rules; i didn't trust her before and don't now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing that kills me about so many 2A people is their adamant stance that it cannot be changed in any way, whatsoever, ever, period. Because the constitution was made perfect when Jesus signed it and you can't have no takebacksies.

 

And the 13th and 18th/21st have no place in that conversation. Somehow.

 

It amuses me that the Rs only push for gun control comes in the form of saying the mentally ill shouldn't be allowed to have weapons. I'm wondering how long it takes for every single vet who has actually sought mental help to make the can't-buy-guns-list. I wonder how much that realization will affect the rights ability to play to military/veteran crowds.

 

You fought for our freedoms, but since you saw some fucked up shit you probably shouldn't be allowed to have a firearm, you know...

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol, some of the blokes I served with shouldn't have had gats even when they were IN the army, let alone now!

 

Australia has a huge amount of '3rd parties', some of them very influential, to the point that the current govt is a coalition of conservative and the 'farmers party'. We have a thing called the preferential system; the party that wins 50% +1 of the votes gets to form govt. However, quite often no party gets that much of the vote first time around. So instead of having a second vote, the smaller parties get to 'sell' their votes and they way they do that is by saying to the major parties "if you adopt policies X, Y and Z we will give you our votes".These preferences are made clear well before the election takes place so when you vote for a smaller party you are well aware that you are essentially voting for one of the major parties as well.

 

This way a votes for a smaller party still counts as they may not get in to power but they get to influence the policies of the big two parties in a considerable way. Only problem is that most Australians don't understand that this is how they system works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...