Al Qaeda, Nazis, Mulsim Brotherhood

Yes I know, I typo'd the title.

 

sizource

 

The Muslim Brotherhood, Nazis and Al-Qaeda

By John Loftus

Jewish Community News | October 4, 2004

It always seems a little strange to have an Irish-Catholic talking about Yom Ha Shoah.

 

I had an unusual education in the Holocaust. When I was working for the Attorney General, I was assigned to do the classified research about the Holocaust, so I went underground to a little town called Suitland, Maryland, right outside Washington, D.C., and that's where the U.S. government buries its secrets -- literally.

 

There are twenty vaults underground and each vault is one acre in size. Anyone see the movie “Raiders of the Lost Ark�? The last scene of that movie is what the underground vaults are really like, only not as organized as they are in the movie. And in those underground vaults I discovered something horrible.

 

I learned that many of the Nazis that I had been assigned to prosecute were on the CIA payroll, but the CIA didn't know they were Nazis because the British Intelligence Service had lied to them. What the British Intelligence Service didn't know was that their liar was Kim Philby, the Soviet communist double agent -- a little scandal of the Cold War. But our State Department swept it all under the rug and allowed the Nazis to stay in America until I was stupid enough to go public with it.

 

What do you do when you want to go public with a story like this one? You call up “60 Minutes.� We had a great time. Mike Wallace gave me 30 minutes on his show. For a long time, it was the longest segment that "60 Minutes" ever did. When the episode about Nazis in America went on the air back in 1982, it caused a minor national uproar. Congress demanded hearings, Mike Wallace got the Emmy award, and my family got the death threats. It was a great trip.

 

Then a funny thing happened. Over the last 25 years, every retired spy in the U.S. and Canada and England all wanted me to be their lawyer, for free of course. So I had 500 clients, they paid me $1 apiece. So I am the worst paid lawyer in America, but among the better employed.

 

Let me give you an example. This year a friend of mine from the CIA, named Bob Baer wrote a very good book about Saudi Arabia and terrorism, it's called Sleeping with the Devil. I read the book and I got about a third of the way through and I stopped. Bob was writing how when he worked for the CIA how bad the files were.

 

He said, for example, the files for the Muslim Brotherhood were almost nothing. There were just a few newspaper clippings. I called Bob up and said, “Bob, that's wrong. The CIA has enormous files on the Muslim Brotherhood, volumes of them. I know because I read them a quarter of a century ago.� He said, “What do you mean?�

 

Here's how you can find all of the missing secrets about the Muslim Brotherhood -- and you can do this, too. I said, “Bob, go to your computer and type in two words into the search part. Type the word “Banna,� B-a-n-n-a. He said, “Yeah.� Type in “Nazi.� Bob typed the two words in, and out came 30 to 40 articles from around the world. He read them and called me back and said, “Oh my gosh, what have we done?�

 

What I'm doing today is doing what I'm doing now: I'm educating a new generation in the CIA that the Muslim Brotherhood was a fascist organization that was hired by Western intelligence that evolved over time into what we today know as al-Qaeda.

 

Here's how the story began. In the 1920's there was a young Egyptian named al Bana. And al Bana formed this nationalist group called the Muslim Brotherhood. Al Bana was a devout admirer of Adolph Hitler and wrote to him frequently. So persistent was he in his admiration of the new Nazi Party that in the 1930's, al-Bana and the Muslim Brotherhood became a secret arm of Nazi intelligence.

 

The Arab Nazis had much in common with the new Nazi doctrines. They hated Jews; they hated democracy; and they hated the Western culture. It became the official policy of the Third Reich to secretly develop the Muslim Brotherhood as the fifth Parliament, an army inside Egypt.

 

When war broke out, the Muslim Brotherhood promised in writing that they would rise up and help General Rommell and make sure that no English or American soldier was left alive in Cairo or Alexandria.

 

The Muslim Brotherhood began to expand in scope and influence during World War II. They even had a Palestinian section headed by the grand Mufti of Jerusalem, one of the great bigots of all time. Here, too, was a man -- The grand Mufti of Jerusalem was the Muslim Brotherhood representative for Palestine. These were undoubtedly Arab Nazis. The Grand Mufti, for example, went to Germany during the war and helped recruit an international SS division of Arab Nazis. They based it in Croatia and called it the “Handjar� Muslim Division, but it was to become the core of Hitler's new army of Arab fascists that would conquer the Arab peninsula from then on to Africa -- grand dreams.

 

At the end of World War II, the Muslim Brotherhood was wanted for war crimes. Their German intelligence handlers were captured in Cairo. The whole net was rolled up by the British Secret Service. Then a horrible thing happened.

 

Instead of prosecuting the Nazis -- the Muslim Brotherhood -- the British government hired them. They brought all the fugitive Nazi war criminals of Arab and Muslim descent into Egypt, and for three years they were trained on a special mission. The British Secret Service wanted to use the fascists of the Muslim Brotherhood to strike down the infant state of Israel in 1948. Only a few people in the Mossad know this, but many of the members of the Arab Armies and terrorist groups that tried to strangle the infant State of Israel were the Arab Nazis of the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

Britain was not alone. The French intelligence service cooperated by releasing the Grand Mufti and smuggling him to Egypt, so all of the Arab Nazis came together. So, from 1945 to 1948, the British Secret Service protected every Arab Nazi they could, but they failed to quash the State of Israel.

 

What the British did then, they sold the Arab Nazis to the predecessor of what became the CIA. It may sound stupid; it may sound evil, but it did happen. The idea was that we were going to use the Arab Nazis in the Middle East as a counterweight to the Arab communists. Just as the Soviet Union was funding Arab communists, we would fund the Arab Nazis to fight against. And lots of secret classes took place. We kept the Muslim Brotherhood on our payroll.

 

But the Egyptians became nervous. Nasser ordered all of the Muslim Brotherhood out of Egypt or be imprisoned, and we would execute them all. During the 1950's, the CIA evacuated the Nazis of the Muslim Brotherhood to Saudi Arabia. Now when they arrived in Saudi Arabia, some of the leading lights of the Muslim Brotherhood like Azzam, became the teachers in the Madrasas, the religious schools. And there they combined the doctrines of Nazism with this weird Islamic cult, Wahhabiism.

 

Everyone thinks that Islam is this fanatical religion, but it is not. They think that Islam -- the Saudi version of Islam -- is typical, but it's not. The Wahhabi cult was condemned as a heresy more than 60 times by the Muslim nations. But when the Saudis got wealthy, they bought a lot of silence. This is a very harsh cult. The Wahhabiism was only practiced by two nations, the Taliban and Saudi Arabia. That's how extreme it is. It really has nothing to do with Islam. Islam is a very peaceful and tolerant religion. It has always had good relationships with the Jews for the first thousand years of its existence.

 

For the Saudis, there was a ruler in charge of Saudi Arabia, and they were the new home of the Muslim Brotherhood, and fascism and extremism were mingled in these schools. And there was a young student who paid attention - - and Azzam's student was named Osama Bin Ladin. Osama Bin Ladin was taught by the Nazis of the Muslim Brotherhood who had emigrated to Saudi Arabia.

 

In 1979 the CIA decided to take the Arab Nazis out of cold storage. The Russians had invaded Afghanistan, so we told the Saudis that we would fund them if they would bring all of the Arab Nazis together and ship them off to Afghanistan to fight the Russians. We had to rename them. We couldn't call them the Muslim Brotherhood because that was too sensitive a name. Its Nazi cast was too known. So we called them the Maktab al Khidimat il Mujahideen, the MAK.

 

And the CIA lied to Congress and said they didn't know who was on the payroll in Afghanistan, except the Saudis. But it was not true. A small section CIA knew perfectly well that we had once again hired the Arab Nazis and that we were using them to fight our secret wars.

 

Azzam and his assistant, Osama Bin Ladin, rose to some prominence from 1979 to '89, and they won the war. They drove the Russians out of Afghanistan. Our CIA said, “We won, let's go home!� and we left this army of Arab fascists in the field of Afghanistan.

 

Saudis didn't want to come back. Saudis started paying bribes to Osama Bin Ladin and his followers to stay out of Saudi Arabia. Now the MAK split in half. Azzam was mysteriously assassinated apparently by Osama Bin Ladin himself. The radical group -- the most radical of the merge of the Arab fascists and religious extremists -- Osama called that al Qaeda. But to this day there are branches of the Muslim Brotherhood all through al Qaeda.

 

Osama Bin Ladin's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, came from the Egyptian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, the results of a Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

 

There are many flavors and branches, but they are all Muslim Brotherhoods. There is one in Israel. The organization you know as “Hammas� is actually a secret chapter of the Muslim Brotherhood. When Israel assassinated Sheik Yassin a month ago, the Muslim Brotherhood published his obituary in a Cairo newspaper in Arabic and revealed that he was actually the secret leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Gaza.

 

So the Muslim Brotherhood became this poison that spread throughout the Middle East and on 9/11, it began to spread around the world.

 

I know this sounds like some sort of a sick fantasy, but go to your computer and type in the words “Banna,� B-a-n-n-a and the word “Nazi,� N-a-z-i, and you will see all of the articles come up. Those are all the pieces of information that the CIA was trying to hide from its employees. It did not want them to know the awful past. So, in 1984, when I was exposing European Nazis on the CIA payroll, at the same time they were trying to hide from Congress the fact that they had Arab Nazis back on the payroll to fight the Russians -- a stupid and corrupt program.

 

So, when Bob Baer studied his files, he was just stunned. A whole generation: the current CIA people know nothing about this. And believe me, the current generation CIA are good and decent Americans and I like them a lot. They're trying to do a good job, but part of their problem is their files have been shredded. All of these secrets have to come out.

 

So, of course, my clients in the intelligence community said, “Well, what are you doing?� They gave me an example. They said, “Here's how the Saudis finance these groups. The Saudis have established a group of charities on a street in Virginia. It's 555 Grove St., Herndon, Virginia.� So I said, “OK the Saudis are terrorists, so what?� These charities fund Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda. The Saudis are getting tax deductions for terrorism. They have set up front groups so all the terrorists groups in the U.S. and the front groups get the Saudi money as a charitable donation.

 

I said, “You're kidding me.� Nope. And they told me that right near where I lived in Tampa, Florida was one of the leading terrorists in the world. There were these two professors at the University of South Florida. One had just left -- and he was now in Syria -- and he was the world head of Islamic Jihad. His number two, the head of Islamic Jihad in the Western Hemisphere, was Dr. Sami al-Arian, who is still employed as a professor at the University of South Florida. You've got to be kidding. This can't be true.

 

Yes, these guys are raising money all across America and shipping it to Syria to go down to Palestine, the Palestinian areas, and hire suicide bombers to kill Jews. They sent me the videotapes. There was Professor al-Arian on stage and one of his friends gets up and says, “Now, who will give me $500 to kill a Jew? There are people standing by in Jerusalem who will go out in the street and stab a Jew with a knife, but we need $500.� And he said, “All of this money will go to the Islamic committee for Palestine.� And that is the front group in the United States for the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

 

So I had all my friends in the FBI and CIA send in these files. I said, “Why haven't you prosecuted this guy? You've known about him since 1989.� “We'd love to. We've tried to prosecute him but we were told we couldn't touch him because he gets all of his money from the Saudis, and we are all under orders not to do anything to embarrass the Saudi government.�

 

I said, “I don't mind embarrassing them.� You know what I did? I donated money to the charity that was the terrorist fund, because under Florida law, that gave me the right to sue the charity to find out where my money was going. It was hilarious.

 

In early March, 2002, I drafted a long lawsuit exposing Professor Sami al-Arian, naming all the crimes he'd committed, all the bombings in Israel, the fundraising in America with terrorism. I mentioned how his money got to him from the Saudis and how the Saudis had convinced our government not to prosecute him for political reasons. Because of my high-level security clearances, everything I write is sort of classified material and has to be sent back to the government before publication, for censorship. So I sent my long lawsuit complaint to the CIA, and they loved it. They said, “Oh, great. We don't like the Saudis either. Go sue them.�

 

Three days later two FBI Agents showed up at my door, saying, “You know, there are only 21 people in the U.S. government that knew some of this information, and now you're 22. How did you find out?� I said, “I'm sorry, I can't tell you, attorney-client privilege.� That's why my clients pay me $1.00 each.

 

The day before I went to file the lawsuit, I got a frantic phone call from the United States Department of Justice. They said, “John, please don't file the lawsuit tomorrow. We really are going to raid these Saudi charities. We're going to close them down. Just give us more time.� “Oh yeah, you're going to raid them. That's what you told me in January - - and again in February, and now it's March. You want more time? I'll give you until 4:00 o'clock tomorrow. I'm filing my complaint at 10:00 a.m., so that at 4:00 p.m., I'm going to release the address of the Saudi charities. Back tomorrow. I filed my lawsuit at 10:00 o'clock, and told the press I was going to hold something back for a little bit.

 

At 10:15, the U.S. government launched Operation Greenquest, a massive raid on all the Saudi charities in homes and businesses, and in one hour we shut down the entire Saudi money-laundering network in America.

 

From March 20, 2002 to the present, the government has found more and more evidence seized in those archives on that single raid that day. The evidence was so compelling that Professor al-Arian is no longer giving his speeches. He is now in federal prison awaiting trial. His accomplice, Hammoudeh, has also been indicted. Some 32 different people have been indicted in the United States as a direct result of these efforts.

 

But not the Saudis -- not the Saudis.

 

A month after I filed my lawsuit against al-Arian, I did it: I caused some trouble. I invited some 40 of the top trial lawyers in America to come down to St. Petersburg, Florida. Boy, did I have a deal for them. I wanted them to put up millions of dollars of their own money -- I'm poor, I had no money to give them -- but I wanted to do something for America.

 

These are lawyers like Ron Motley that had won billions of dollars in their lawsuits against the tobacco industry and the asbestos industry. I said, “What I want you to do is look at the evidence I've collected. It's the same Saudi banks and charities that funded Sami al-Arian that also funded al Qaeda.� I said, “I want you to bring a class action in Federal Court in Washington on behalf of everyone who died on Sept. 11th. I'm going to work for free and collect all the evidence, introduce you to the experts, provide all the exhibits and documents . . . and we have to do this for America.�

 

The lawyers studied all the documents I collected, and on August 15, 2002, they filed the largest class-action lawsuit in American history in the Federal District Court in Washington D.C., asking for one trillion dollars damages against the Saudis. The lawsuit said essentially that all these Saudi banks had one thing in common. They were bribing Osama bin Ladin 300 million dollars a year to stay out of Saudi Arabia and go blow up someone else.

 

Well, on 9/11, we found out we were someone else, and the Saudis had to pay for their negligence. So that lawsuit is coming along very well.

 

And more and more people in the CIA and FBI are sort of using me as a back channel to get our information. So, believe it or not, they've actually given me my own TV show now on Sunday mornings on FOX TV nationwide. I'm on at 11:20 eastern standard time. And ABC Radio has given me a national radio program, but I'm on at 10:30 at night and it's past your bedtime.

 

What I've become in my old age is a teacher. Twenty-five years ago I was a lot younger, a lot thinner, but now every day I get 500 to 1,000 e-mails from honest men and women around the world from the intelligence community.

 

And we have to end the evil in this world. We have to recognize that al Qaeda simply didn't spring up on its own. The evil route was Nazism. The al Qaeda Doctrine is the same as the Arab Nazis held. They hated Jews, they hate democracy, and they hate Westerners for Western culture. Al Qaeda is nothing more than the religious expression of Arab Fascism. We allowed this branch of the Nazi trunk to survive, to flourish, and it has come back to haunt us.

 

We must do a better job. Look at these children. They are our legacy. If we are to keep our children safe, we must teach them the lessons of the past. Every generation should know what these candles mean. Not only that one of the greatest tragedies in the history of the world really happened, but the evil that caused it -- Nazism -- survived because we didn't fight hard enough. We didn't finish the job.

 

But we must tell our children that in every generation the men and women of America have stood side by side with our Jewish, Christian, and Moslem brothers. We have risen up together against hatred. America is united now.

 

We will win the war on terror, and we will finish the job that these soldiers and survivors started more than a half-century ago. We must set the standard that to teach a child to hate is the worst form of child abuse. We must work together to end racism in our children's lifetime. We must teach our children to remember the Holocaust and be proud, so proud of those who survived and inspired us with their courage. In their name, in their honor, let us go forward and fight together.

 

NEVER AGAIN.

Another question, after the muslim brotherhood's terrorist history, and the fact that the current head of the muslim brotherhood denies the holocaust ever happened (source) how do you feel about their involvement in assisting with rescuing Jill Carroll from her kidnappers?

When Hitler came to power in 1933, Iran was known as Persia. The shah(the guy they had in charge before the ayatollahs took over) became an admirer of Hitler, Nazism and the concept of the Aryan master race. In 1935 he renamed his ancient country "Iran," which in Farsi means Aryan and refers to the lineage that Nazi racial theorists and Persian ethnologists cherished.

I really don't give a fuck who rescues Jill Carroll as long as it happens.

The web between nazis, islamic terrorists, and the OSS and CIA is pretty thick.

Friends today, enemies tommorow. Especially with our intelligence departments which seem to be expedient to their own detriment sometimes.

But I can't really get into this now.

^ Seriously. The "we can't give in to kidnapper's demands because it causes more kidnappings" standpoint has been invalidated by the Italian govt. paying for that journalist's release, or the Germans releasing the plane hijacker who killed a navy diver in exchange for an intelligence agent moonlighting as an archaeologist. There were 8 female prisoners, and they released 6. The other two wouldn't make a huge difference, and its not like we can't follow them and pick them up when its done with.

they are all the same cia controlled robots, real muslims dont mix up with them....

Originally posted by Juan Fuentes@Jan 22 2006, 08:42 PM

they are all the same cia controlled robots, real muslims dont mix up with them....

Quoted post

Yeah. REAL muslims are too busy picking dates in the desert to know WHAT THE FUCK is up with anything other than Allah.

That's a nasty comment Soup, You get what you give . Remember that.

 

Juan is right. Real muslims don't cut off people's heads on TV. And all muslims don't live in the desert, soup.

Get an education and some manners and then come back to talk.

 

 

Edited to say,

 

Asalamu alaikum Juan...

Originally posted by Dawood@Jan 23 2006, 03:28 AM

That's a nasty comment Soup, You get what you give . Remember that.

 

Juan is right. Real muslims don't cut off people's heads on TV. And all muslims don't live in the desert, soup.

Get an education and some manners and then come back to talk.

 

 

Edited to say,

 

Asalamu alaikum Juan...

Quoted post

ACTUALLY I was reffering to the belief among middle Easterners that the only real way to purify Islam is to return back to a nomadic existance, pickin dates and drinking camels milk. It's commonly brought up, I figured somone would catch on.

 

However I personally believe that if you converted to islam from the States you're playing with fire. Wahhabism is the oldest and most believed in group of muslims and the source of a lot of anti-semitism. You can say that few muslims involve themselves in martyrdom, but they all believe in it, which in western terms 'is bad'

 

I would say the joke was in poor taste but, you would have to agree you'd be better off taking your point of view, with a grain of salt.

Im glad I read this not only because it was very enlightening but it explained my question of why turkey does not hate israel like most other arab countries.

Originally posted by Soup@Jan 23 2006, 05:53 AM

ACTUALLY I was reffering to the belief among middle Easterners that the only real way to purify Islam is to return back to a nomadic existance, pickin dates and drinking camels milk. It's commonly brought up, I figured somone would catch on.

 

However I personally believe that if you converted to islam from the States you're playing with fire. Wahhabism is the oldest and most believed in group of muslims and the source of a lot of anti-semitism. You can say that few muslims involve themselves in martyrdom, but they all believe in it, which in western terms 'is bad'

 

I would say the joke was in poor taste but, you would have to agree you'd be better off taking your point of view, with a grain of salt.

Quoted post

 

 

Thats a misconception , Soup. Muslims don't beleive that picking dates and drinking camels milk is the way to purify Islam.

 

We beleive that worshipping the One and Only creator of the heavens and earth without associating partners in worship. Also, ridding the earth of all forms of Idolatry will purify the beliefs of the muslims.

 

there is nothing wrong with modern technology and advancement as far as Islam is concerned, even the so called "wahhabis" that you referred to don't believe that living in the 12th century and riding camels will bring them any closer to pure Islam.

That's something they tell you in the news and in western publications to give you the idea that muslims are backward and anti-progressive.

 

Actually, It was the muslims during the "dark ages" of the europeans that contributed HUGELY to scientific advancement and progression.

It is a part of our faith, although, today, you don't see much of that in the Islamic world, due to the manics that run in many of the muslim countries into the ground while lining their own pockets with loot.

 

Also, It's funny that you think that muslims who reverted to Islam in the west are playing with fire, we seem to think that those who don't come back to the pure way of life are playing with fire,

Ironic huh?

Oh, well everybody is entitled to do and believe whatever they want.

theyre just not entitled to choose the consequences of these beleifs and actions.

Originally posted by Dawood@Jan 24 2006, 04:27 PM

Also, It's funny that you think that muslims who reverted to Islam in the west are playing with fire, we seem to think that those who don't come back to the pure way of life are playing with fire,

Ironic huh?

Quoted post

 

Dawood, I remember you saying you are Italian? How do you figure you "reverted" back to a religion you or your ancestors never previously practiced?

Al-Ikhwan Al-Muslimun

(The Muslim Brotherhood)

Al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun (The Muslim Brotherhood) was founded in Egypt in 1928 by Hasan al-Banna (1906-1949), a Sufi revivalist thinker and activist.

 

Following Britain's military occupation of Egypt, al-Banna's sensitivity towards Western imperialism was heightened due to his country's economic exploitation and cultural domination. Consequently, al-Banna saw fit to create an Islamic group which would oppose the secularist tendencies and corruption of state and society which existed by asserting a return to Islamic values and ways of life. He introduced this organization into Egyptian society by relying on pre-existing social networks. The group consistently attracted new recruits and established numerous businesses, clinics and schools. Appealing to a variety of constituencies, al-Banna recruited followers from a vast cross-section of Egyptian society by addressing issues such as colonialism, public health, educational policy, natural resources' management, Marxism, social inequalities, Arab nationalism, the weakness of the Islamic world and the growing conflict in Palestine.

 

Al-Banna did not begin or end his call with the basic tenet of Islam, tawhid (singling out Allah in all forms of worship), as was the way of the Prophets. Al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun have consistently overlooked the principal aspect of calling their followers to tawhid and forbidding them from polytheism, because these are matters which require time and effort to change, matters which people do not find easy to accept. Al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun were more concerned with amassing groups of people together rather than calling the people to the way of the Prophet (may Allah raise his rank and grant him peace).

 

Consequently, they accommodate every kind of religious innovator in their ranks, giving them a platform to openly call to their various contradicting beliefs. Amongst al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun can be found followers of Sufism, the Jahmiyyah (those who deny that Allah has any Attributes), the Shee'ah, the Mu'tazilah (a philosophical school of thought that also denies Allah's Attributes), the Khawarij (those who expel people from the fold of Islam due to their sins), modernists, and many others. This methodology of political expediency results in Islam's clarity being replaced with something that is bewildering and blurred. Allah has said,

 

"You consider them to be united, but their hearts are divided. That is because they are a people who understand not."

 

As the group expanded during the 1930s, it quickly transformed into an entity which would become directly active in the Egyptian political scene. Directly confronting the rulers, the organization became highly clandestine. This religious innovation of secrecy can now be found in the other more dangerous sects such as al-Qaeda and Jamaa'atul-Jihaad. After a series of back and forth assassinations between group members and the government, Prime Minister Nuqrashi Pasha disbanded al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun in December 1948. Although it has pursued a considerably more peaceful approach to its call since the 1970s, they set the stage for the other Qutbist groups that would take up where they had left off.

 

It is from the fundamental principles of al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun that they consider the lands, possessions and blood of the Muslim nations to be theirs, as if these nations which they preside in were places of experimentation. Accordingly, they sacrifice generations and generations of people for the attainment of rule. They believe that they can attempt to search for different ways to establish the religion of Islam, as if the texts of Islam do not actually contain an outline and divinely set method in which to do this. Directly contravening the methodology of the Prophets in calling to Allah, they have yet to experience anything resembling success.

 

 

- abridged from a footnote in the book: The 'Wahhabi' Myth

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Quran 59:14

Originally posted by Stereotype V.001+Jan 24 2006, 08:32 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stereotype V.001 - Jan 24 2006, 08:32 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Jan 24 2006, 04:27 PM

Also, It's funny that you think that muslims who reverted to Islam in the west are playing with fire, we seem to think that those who don't come back to the pure way of life are playing with fire,

Ironic huh?

Quoted post

 

Dawood, I remember you saying you are Italian? How do you figure you "reverted" back to a religion you or your ancestors never previously practiced?

[/b]

 

 

"Under the Islamic Empire, which emerged following the death of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad and especially in the 7th to 11th centuries, small parts of Southern Italy; Sicily, and Sardinia were occupied by Muslims."

 

taken from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Italy

 

The islamic influence in Italy during this period was not as signifigant as in spain though.

 

That's not the reason I chose the word "revert" as opposed to "convert".

The real reason is because every person in born in a state that we call "fitrah". This fitrah is the natural state that every human is born.

In more detail, It's the natural inclination toward good. There is a natural correspondence between human nature and Islam. Human beings are suited for Islam and we respond spontaneously to its teachings. Islam provides the ideal conditions for sustaining and developing a persons innate qualities of good.

 

So, I was born upon Islam, my enviroment turned me away from it and I eventually found my way back to it.

 

I promise, I'm not going to turn every thread in here into a religious discussion, so In the future if you have questions like this refer it back to the nature of the creator thread, because, You know how it goes.

People always rewrite history to their liking. Were you born in Italy, or America? If you're taking the time to trace Ancestors back to Islam, why stop there? Why not go further before Islam and "revert" to worshiping fire?

Originally posted by Soup@Jan 25 2006, 04:15 AM

People always rewrite history to their liking. Were you born in Italy, or America? If you're taking the time to trace Ancestors back to Islam, why stop there? Why not go further before Islam and "revert" to worshiping fire?

Quoted post

 

Because the original people were not fire worshippers, they were Muslims. Let's just look at this from a logical standpoint because we'll go in circles for days trying to bring our historic evidence.

 

If you beleive in God, then this point is relevent to you. If you don't beleive in God, then this point won't seem relevent.

 

If you beleive in God, and you beleive that God has a "path" that he is pleased that you follow. Then, would it be just for this God to create you to worship him and then allow the first people on earth worship fire?

That would be injustice to you , because people , by nature follow their traditions/customs. So if the tradition/custom was to worship fire, but the correct way was to worship God, and the people had no knowledge of worshipping God, then how could he hold them accountable for anything?

In my view, mankind was created with an inherent inclination toward a creator and when we don't nurture that inclination we go astray from our original state.

 

and fire can't be God, because water extinguishes it

and Allah can't be extinguished.

that's why i don't worship fire.

Originally posted by Dawood@Jan 24 2006, 11:46 PM

I promise, I'm not going to turn every thread in here into a religious discussion, so In the future if you have questions like this refer it back to the nature of the creator thread, because, You know how it goes.

Quoted post

 

 

ok, cool

in the future, soup, please stick to this advice

Wow...John Loftus used to be a federal prosecutor, too.

 

Well, I'm not surprised...there were some crazy deals made post WW2, but this has to be at the top of the list.

Originally posted by symbols+Jan 25 2006, 03:15 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (symbols - Jan 25 2006, 03:15 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dawood@Jan 24 2006, 11:46 PM

I promise, I'm not going to turn every thread in here into a religious discussion, so In the future if you have questions like this refer it back to the nature of the creator thread, because, You know how it goes.

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ok, cool

in the future, soup, please stick to this advice

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I overstepped the thread topic. My bad.

ha, ha, see , i warned you not to bring up religion in non religious threads with me around. I've been around here long enough to know the deal.

Originally posted by Dawood@Jan 26 2006, 02:15 AM

ha, ha, see , i warned you not to bring up religion in non religious threads with me around.   I've been around here long enough to know the deal.

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No, you dont seem to get it. I'm admitting it takes two, and reserving my opinions for an atmosphere less destructive to the discussion topic, being the article and Muslim Brotherhood.

(OK, let me straighten up , clear my throat and get real serious)

Ahem, Ah-he-he-hem

 

No, man, I get it, really , I do.

ok cool, werd to your mothers.

Originally posted by Soup@Jan 20 2006, 08:58 PM

Azzam and his assistant, Osama Bin Ladin, rose to some prominence from 1979 to '89, and they won the war. They drove the Russians out of Afghanistan. Our CIA said, “We won, let's go home!� and we left this army of Arab fascists in the field of Afghanistan.

 

Saudis didn't want to come back. Saudis started paying bribes to Osama Bin Ladin and his followers to stay out of Saudi Arabia. Now the MAK split in half. Azzam was mysteriously assassinated apparently by Osama Bin Ladin himself. The radical group -- the most radical of the merge of the Arab fascists and religious extremists -- Osama called that al Qaeda. But to this day there are branches of the Muslim Brotherhood all through al Qaeda.

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Ehhhh....This seems off, which then makes me think the whole thing is off, so I just get the feeling this whole thing is on some Skull and Bones vs. the islamic freemasons type of shit.

Originally posted by CACashRefund@Jan 21 2006, 02:09 AM

When Hitler came to power in 1933, Iran was known as Persia. The shah(the guy they had in charge before the ayatollahs took over) became an admirer of Hitler, Nazism and the concept of the Aryan master race. In 1935 he renamed his ancient country "Iran," which in Farsi means Aryan and refers to the lineage that Nazi racial theorists and Persian ethnologists cherished.

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image results for muslim brother hood on google

egyptian and sudanese members

so I am wondering if you think that these are the people beliving themselves to be the true aryan race ( I know you are talking about Iran but...) that loved hitler who was killing people who looked like... another google search for holocost survivors

this I just think that your a little off.. I understand that there is a hate among arab peoples for actions by Israel against the palestinians which they see as the representation of jews in their land but I dont think that arabs or persians see themselves as the arayan race the way eroupeans do becase if you look on the ground the people are brown ......Oh yeah and the shah was put in to power by the British the Americans and the USSR when Iran got Independence in 1941(even though he was in power before)...So I am not sure if he is a good representation of Iran.

Originally posted by CACashRefund+Jan 21 2006, 02:09 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CACashRefund - Jan 21 2006, 02:09 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>When Hitler came to power in 1933, Iran was known as Persia. The shah(the guy they had in charge before the ayatollahs took over) became an admirer of Hitler, Nazism and the concept of the Aryan master race. In 1935 he renamed his ancient country "Iran," which in Farsi means Aryan and refers to the lineage that Nazi racial theorists and Persian ethnologists cherished.

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<!--QuoteBegin-MAR@Jan 23 2006, 07:22 PM

Im glad I read this not only because it was very enlightening but it explained my question of why turkey does not hate israel like most other arab countries.

 

In 1070 the land that is now turkey was invaded and seteled by the "turks" from modern day Iran...I just thought that whould be interesting to consider.

Originally posted by 383@Jan 27 2006, 06:30 PM

.Oh yeah and the shah was put in to power by the British the Americans and the USSR when Iran got Independence in 1941(even though he was in power before)...So I am not sure if he is a good representation of Iran.

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What? So... he was put in power even though he was in power already? Sounds like a lot of power...

 

So does Iran mean Aryan or not? I learned it did in Humanities class like 20 years ago so, there's a time factor and I'm not saying the teacher was right but he was a pretty hip guy... He said Persia was so named by the Europeans because of the laguage Pers... Kind of like calling Mexico 'Spanishy'... So, what's the story?

Originally posted by Smart+Jan 27 2006, 10:51 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Smart - Jan 27 2006, 10:51 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-383@Jan 27 2006, 06:30 PM

.Oh yeah and the shah was put in to power by the British the Americans and the USSR when Iran got Independence in 1941(even though he was in power before)...So I am not sure if he is a good representation of Iran.

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What? So... he was put in power even though he was in power already? Sounds like a lot of power...

 

So does Iran mean Aryan or not? I learned it did in Humanities class like 20 years ago so, there's a time factor and I'm not saying the teacher was right but he was a pretty hip guy... He said Persia was so named by the Europeans because of the laguage Pers... Kind of like calling Mexico 'Spanishy'... So, what's the story?

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"The term Aryan race refers to a model of racial identity that was prevelant in Europe from around the 1880s through to 1945, most notably in Nazi Germany. It has become associated with the theory that the Indo-European peoples constitute a master race.

 

The word "Aryan" derives from cultures of Iran and India. It was originally used in various Indo-Iranian languages. Possibly it originally referred to clan-identity, but it certainly later had a meaning roughly similar to "noble" or "honorable". It was sometimes used by the speakers of these languages to refer to those who were ennobled by spirtual knowledge."

There you go .....I think I was trying to get at the fact that if hitler was killing jews whos skin is white.... I find It hard to belive that people who live in areas of the world were peoples skin tends to be brown whould be trying to de brown there own peoples. but I guess in india they do have skin lighting products...the result of years of colonialization and the enlightenment telling them Brown=savage.

The word Iran is derived from the word Aryan. India is also referred to as Aryavarta, which means "the Land of Aryans".

so .....It originally has to do with language and later came to be equated with people of eroupean ancestery.

Contemporary anthropologists who believe in the existence of an ancient Aryan "race" generally have the opinion that its closest descendants today are the Persians or Iranians) and the North Indian people, (those who speak Indo-Aryan languages), not the Europeans or the Germans; so possibly the Ossetes and Slavs, but not the Nordic race with which they were equated in Nazi ideolog

there you go not eroupean and if any only eastern eroupeans but through language not phenotype or race.

 

And the shah was put into power while modern day Iran was a colony or protectorate of both russia and Britain and the coup is liked to britain and this astablished a heredity rule...the shah was an asshole the minute the iranian people got the chance they booted him ...

if the guy didn't keep implying that muslims, even extreme ones, have 'hating jews' as the crux of their being, i'd like him a whole lot more. i get really tired of jewish authors/journalists/historians consantly needing to reinforce the idea that islam somehow holds anti semetism as a tenet of its belief. i know he doesn't claim they all do, and infact specifically states otherwise at one point, but it's kind of like me writing a long essay on black violence against whites, then having one sentence reminding people that not all blacks rob white people.

 

i also find it disconcerning that he has a show on fox.

that's all.

383- The "master race" belief with the nazis was more of an idea than physical appearances. The physical characteristics were a big part of it, but people hung onto the idea more than anything. Hitler himself was a percentage Jewish, and Himmler the SS leader went on various expeditions to the Middle East and South America to try to "trace the aryan ancestry." If color was such a big deal there wouldn't have been Muslim and other ethnic minority divisions within the SS, arguably the most fanatic members of the nazis.