a manifesto

money dictates the survival of the fittest. we are slaves to the free market. we will spend the time of our lives in efforts to accumulate money (which has imaginary value) to buy useless things in order to fill a void we have within ourselves. society was created because humans were too lazy and weakminded to evolve to the next level of thought, and needed to create something in order to pass their time on earth. no one is really free. we are trapped under layers of social fabric which has continued to persist, grow, and destroy for hundreds of years due to the dominance of our species over other organisms. we come to this world with nothing but ourselves and will die just the same. i refuse to live by constraints determined by those who have no concept of what my reality is so that i can serve their best interests. we leave marks behind in attempts to create a legacy of our insignificant existences.

sometimes you need to let the ground break below you and abandon every notion you've been told as truth to really know where you stand.

smoke another one chomsky jr.

Are you going to, like.....start blowing things up now?

haha. no. thats just what came to my head when i couldnt pay attention to the biology lecture about human wastes today.

have a little more fait.

I wrote a 'manizesto' once.

manizesto

:lol:

bor-ring

Originally posted by NeverSleep

money dictates the survival of the fittest. we are slaves to the free market. we will spend the time of our lives in efforts to accumulate money (which has imaginary value) to buy useless things in order to fill a void we have within ourselves. society was created because humans were too lazy and weakminded to evolve to the next level of thought, and needed to create something in order to pass their time on earth. no one is really free. we are trapped under layers of social fabric which has continued to persist, grow, and destroy for hundreds of years due to the dominance of our species over other organisms. we come to this world with nothing but ourselves and will die just the same. i refuse to live by constraints determined by those who have no concept of what my reality is so that i can serve their best interests. we leave marks behind in attempts to create a legacy of our insignificant existences.

 

sometimes you need to let the ground break below you and abandon every notion you've been told as truth to really know where you stand.

Your proceeding in the correct direction. congratulations on reaching this point so far. the first step in any de-conditioning process is to QUESTION REALITY.

Your argument is OK however you might want to make distinctions between social and economic sectors of humanity.

Every system has it's slaves. the fundamental nature of humanity is there are more wants then needs, so someone has to work for it.

[i refuse to live by constraints determined by those who have no concept of what my reality is so that i can serve their best interests. ]

resistance is the crucial element here.

congratulations on a successfull attempt at whatever you may be doing, let's not put labels on it..

keep in mind your using a materialistic mode of expression to express your anti-materialistic view point.

http://i.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1993/1101930503_400.jpg'>

beware, relativism can cause you to sink into a "hole" that is your own thoughts. or maybe that's just me. i remind myself sometimes that enjoyment and happiness should be taken from the act of doing, instead of having. i think that part of the reason i don't have a problem with that (most of the time) is because i've always had to do without many material things. the commercial garbage that seems to infiltrate our enviroment doesn't effect me much. i used to have sort of a problem with this, in the way of having collections. i would be obsessed about whatever i was collecting at the time, but then i would move on to collecting something else. i quit that when i became intrested in graffiti, which became my new obsession.

http://img27.photobucket.com/albums/v82/agentarcana/anacalypsisCover.jpg'>

I like Hakim Bey's idea of going back to paleolithic society. Not like a destoy all civilization primitivist but the social stucture of paleolithic man as opposed to this heirarchial one we have now. Even if we could get the christians to revert from their patriarchy back to their "pagan" roots of matriarchy. That alone would do the world alot of good. Too bad the native americans don't still control this half of the world.

white devil slave master

Re: Re: a manifesto

Originally posted by metallix

Your proceeding in the correct direction. congratulations on reaching this point so far. the first step in any de-conditioning process is to QUESTION REALITY.

Your argument is OK however you might want to make distinctions between social and economic sectors of humanity.

 

Every system has it's slaves. the fundamental nature of humanity is there are more wants then needs, so someone has to work for it.

 

 

[i refuse to live by constraints determined by those who have no concept of what my reality is so that i can serve their best interests. ]

 

resistance is the crucial element here.

 

congratulations on a successfull attempt at whatever you may be doing, let's not put labels on it..

 

keep in mind your using a materialistic mode of expression to express your anti-materialistic view point.

one can only question reality so many times before they end up back at square one. i've come to realize that "reality" is whatever you perceive in your head. if i think that someone is being an asshole, then they're being an asshole. someone else may perceive it a totally different way, making their reality of the same incidence entirely different.

as far as making distinctions between economic and social, the two of them are entirely intertwined so to separate them seems pointless. your economic standing determines how you may exist in society. you may choose resistance, but where will you go? unless you find an uninhabited piece of earth, you'll be forced to deal with consequences of society, whether it be being put in jail for breaking laws such as sleeping on "public property" or not being able to eat because you can't hunt or grow food, you have no land. in this way, we are slaves to the free market, either you use it to get by or you resist and die off. this slavery is what perpetuates our existence.

i have long since accepted these things. it all boils down to how you want to live and playing the game accordingly in order to get the results you want. today was the first time each individual realization came together to make total sense to me, and i was so excited i brought it to 12 oz.

it's not that i dont have faith, its that understanding these things allows us more freedom. once we can think further than what we've specifically been told, we can find the answers ourselves and believe something because we know it, not because we have faith that the answers are there. and on the other side of that arguement, we won't ever know anything past the capacity of thought given to us. so, we can think and hypothesize forever but the only answers we can get are the ones in our head which may or may not be right.

when i get to this point i decide that i dont care anymore.

i think entirely too much for my own good.

illuminati controls you all

I remember when I was 16 and thought I had it all figured out like this.

You'll soon snap out of it. Or not.

ya man dont worry i used to think i could change the world that my opinion mattered, that i was right

wait two years man

I think I agree with everything your saying except that your perceptions are your reality. To believe that life is entirely a subjective and there is no such thing as an objective and consensus always sounded kinda ridiculous to me. I think existentialism is the rationalisation for hedonism...

anyways...

i may not be able to change the world, but i can break windows and run like a little kid from his mother.

hmm. i'd say that realiity is perceived by the individual. what we have and feel as though we need are based on our own insecurities in life.

voltaire said, if there was not a god, we would need to invent one.

something along those lines, anyway.

i think that we can use the reality that is set before us, the one that television leads most of society to believe is "correct" to our own benefit.

not that our own benefit always comes with the best intentions, but i think it's a start. as long as your not a slave to your own mind or someone elses conceived notion of what "normality" is....

i'm babbling

haha, wait a second, you're supposed to be a slave to your own mind

I don't think thats such a wrong idea. Even when you ignore all that sociological stuff about "norms" and conditioning from environment. Your still a slave to your mind in that your perception is limited. And even within that limited perception your mind state is fleeting. I don't know about other people but personally, its rare for me to have a real clarity of mind. People always talk of Cartesian ideas of how the senses are flawed. But I'de say that the mind is probably as flawed as the senses.

Calling yourself a slave to your mind is probably the wrong expersion for this though. Because I think its fair to say your mind is you. Putting debates about mind body duality aside. Lets just say they are seperate entities for a thought experiment. if your body dies and your mind lives I'de still say you exist. If your mind dies but your body is still around then I'de say you don't exist anymore. So I guess a better term then saying your a slave to your mind is probably just to say, your flawed and a slave to your own imperfection ... I just realised that my mind flawed thingy pretty much means you don't know you exist ... I don't know I'm just fucking rambling ...

Anyway .. I guess for a broader more socially applicable thing I'de say keep it practical... if you think letting the ground fall from underneath you to know where you truly stand will make you a happier person. then do that ...you don't really have to do it on such a conceptual level though.. if you hate money you can just either cheat the system by doing something illegal but profitable or you can go live as a hermit .. infact considering you feel like a slave to society and believe its the invention of those fearful of evolution thats probably the answer your looking for ...Go live as a hermit ..........

you'll probably get very lonely fall into dillusion then invent a society in your mind .. then become a slave to that society ... meh ..

edit: heres another idea... so assuming I'm right about your mind being flawed ... then does that really mean you don't know exist?.. like the rest of this post I havn't thought it through .. but what about your emotive act of feeling ? .. feeling stuff ( in the non sensory sense ) is slept on in this day and age.. it conjures images of fat black women like oprah and queen latifah .. but following from our mind body duality thing here is a question .. if you don't think, there is no prescence of mind, and your body is dead ... but you feel does that mean you exist ? .. I think I would say yes .. conversly if you think but don't feel do you exist ? .. That I'm not so sure about .. I mean emotional dettachment is common .. .but in its truest sense its really hard to fathom ... because being dettached I would count as an emotion .....on a less conceptual level feeling .. for me atleast is the most powerfull part of my experience.. if I think about a loved one I'll never see again its the feeling that induced that makes an impact on me and makes it "real" (dodgy term .. but you know what I mean ) .... also feeling is never fleeting .. if your angry, sad, depressed or confused you always have it with the same sense of clarity ... even if the actual emotion (edit2- and the degree to which you feel it), its self is varying .....

fuck I'm a nerd ..

if youve seen one of these discussions on the internet before.. youve seen them all

is it ok to wake people up from the matrix or is it better to let them continue sleeping?

Originally posted by SilentBob

I don't think thats such a wrong idea. Even when you ignore all that sociological stuff about "norms" and conditioning from environment. Your still a slave to your mind in that your perception is limited. And even within that limited perception your mind state is fleeting. I don't know about other people but personally, its rare for me to have a real clarity of mind. People always talk of Cartesian ideas of how the senses are flawed. But I'de say that the mind is probably as flawed as the senses.

 

Calling yourself a slave to your mind is probably the wrong expersion for this though. Because I think its fair to say your mind is you. Putting debates about mind body duality aside. Lets just say they are seperate entities for a thought experiment. if your body dies and your mind lives I'de still say you exist. If your mind dies but your body is still around then I'de say you don't exist anymore. So I guess a better term then saying your a slave to your mind is probably just to say, your flawed and a slave to your own imperfection ... I just realised that my mind flawed thingy pretty much means you don't know you exist ... I don't know I'm just fucking rambling ...

 

Anyway .. I guess for a broader more socially applicable thing I'de say keep it practical... if you think letting the ground fall from underneath you to know where you truly stand will make you a happier person. then do that ...you don't really have to do it on such a conceptual level though.. if you hate money you can just either cheat the system by doing something illegal but profitable or you can go live as a hermit .. infact considering you feel like a slave to society and believe its the invention of those fearful of evolution thats probably the answer your looking for ...Go live as a hermit ..........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you'll probably get very lonely fall into dillusion then invent a society in your mind .. then become a slave to that society ... meh ..

 

edit: heres another idea... so assuming I'm right about your mind being flawed ... then does that really mean you don't know exist?.. like the rest of this post I havn't thought it through .. but what about your emotive act of feeling ? .. feeling stuff ( in the non sensory sense ) is slept on in this day and age.. it conjures images of fat black women like oprah and queen latifah .. but following from our mind body duality thing here is a question .. if you don't think, there is no prescence of mind, and your body is dead ... but you feel does that mean you exist ? .. I think I would say yes .. conversly if you think but don't feel do you exist ? .. That I'm not so sure about .. I mean emotional dettachment is common .. .but in its truest sense its really hard to fathom ... because being dettached I would count as an emotion .....on a less conceptual level feeling .. for me atleast is the most powerfull part of my experience.. if I think about a loved one I'll never see again its the feeling that induced that makes an impact on me and makes it "real" (dodgy term .. but you know what I mean ) .... also feeling is never fleeting .. if your angry, sad, depressed or confused you always have it with the same sense of clarity ... even if the actual emotion (edit2- and the degree to which you feel it), its self is varying .....

 

 

 

fuck I'm a nerd ..

i never said anything about being a slave to your mind. your mind is the one thing that can set you free.

the world you live in is subject to your mind's propaganda. emotions definitely play a role because they act as the brain's "touch, feel, smell, taste". emotions are the sensory perception of the intellect. emotional detachment isn't possible, either you have emotions about something or lack thereof, apathy in itself is an emotion.

also, people's senses are all different, which doesn't necessarily make them flawed, but because of that, everyone percieves the same things differently. for example, we both may look at the same color and decide that it's blue, yet we might in reality be seeing different shades of it simply because of how our eyes work. who's to say which perception of the color is flawed? we'll never know.

i dont believe in afterlife, so i dont go with the concept that your mind exists outside of your body. we are animals with intellects that never cease to develop if we stimulate them consistently. once the animal is dead, their thoughts and bodily functions are dead as well. our thoughts are a result of a physiological process in our brains, so our thoughts can not exist outside of our bodies.

the thought of being a hermit isn't foreign to me, but i'm still far too young to accept defeat so soon. there's still hope that eventually all these diseases and cancers will wipe out a large chunk of the population before i see my final days, that is if they don't wipe me out first.

Yoy should read 1984, there's some cool stuff about "reality" in it.

Little sample (*powerful leader-guy, o'brien, talking to this other guy, winston, whom he's 'conquered'):

--------------

'We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull. You will learn by degrees, Winston. There is nothing that we could not do. Invisibility, levitation -- anything. I could float off this floor like a soap bubble if I wish to. I do not wish to, because the Party does not wish it. You must get rid of nineteenth-century ideas about the laws of Nature. We make the laws of Nature.'

'But you do not! You are not even masters of this planet. What about the rest of the world? You have not conquered it yet.'

'Unimportant. We shall conquer it when it suits us. And if we did not, what difference would it make? We can shut the rest of the world out of existence. Our nation is the world.'

'But the world itself is only a speck of dust. And man is tiny and helpless! How long has he been in existence? For millions of years the earth was uninhabited.'

'Nonsense. The earth is as old as we are, no older. How could it be older? Nothing exists except through human consciousness.'

'But the rocks are full of the bones of extinct animals -- mammoths and mastodons and enormous reptiles which lived here long before man was ever heard of.'

'Have you ever seen those bones, Winston? Of course not. Nineteenth-century biologists invented them. Before man there was nothing. After man, if he could come to an end, there would be nothing. Outside man there is nothing.'

'But the whole universe is outside us. Look at the stars! Some of them are a million light-years away. They are out of our reach for ever.'

'What are the stars?' said O'Brien indifferently. 'They are bits of fire a few kilometers away. We could reach them if we wanted to. Or we could blot them out. The earth is the center of the universe. The sun and the stars go round it.'

in high school a friend and i wrote a book called "ernie pepesto's communist manifesto"

Originally posted by Ten Cents

Yoy should read 1984, there's some cool stuff about "reality" in it.

 

Little sample (*powerful leader-guy, o'brien, talking to this other guy, winston, whom he's 'conquered'):

--------------

 

'We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull. You will learn by degrees, Winston. There is nothing that we could not do. Invisibility, levitation -- anything. I could float off this floor like a soap bubble if I wish to. I do not wish to, because the Party does not wish it. You must get rid of nineteenth-century ideas about the laws of Nature. We make the laws of Nature.'

 

'But you do not! You are not even masters of this planet. What about the rest of the world? You have not conquered it yet.'

 

'Unimportant. We shall conquer it when it suits us. And if we did not, what difference would it make? We can shut the rest of the world out of existence. Our nation is the world.'

 

'But the world itself is only a speck of dust. And man is tiny and helpless! How long has he been in existence? For millions of years the earth was uninhabited.'

 

'Nonsense. The earth is as old as we are, no older. How could it be older? Nothing exists except through human consciousness.'

 

'But the rocks are full of the bones of extinct animals -- mammoths and mastodons and enormous reptiles which lived here long before man was ever heard of.'

 

'Have you ever seen those bones, Winston? Of course not. Nineteenth-century biologists invented them. Before man there was nothing. After man, if he could come to an end, there would be nothing. Outside man there is nothing.'

 

'But the whole universe is outside us. Look at the stars! Some of them are a million light-years away. They are out of our reach for ever.'

 

'What are the stars?' said O'Brien indifferently. 'They are bits of fire a few kilometers away. We could reach them if we wanted to. Or we could blot them out. The earth is the center of the universe. The sun and the stars go round it.'

there's some interesting points there. especially about the party making reality. i could see how that would lead someone to question their reality...1984 is an interesting book for several reasons. what's the motive in writing it? and why do they teach it in schools?

haha I too remember when I was like 15 and I thought like this. I hated people who watched TV and those who were brainwashed by the corporate giants. I hated yuppies and all this fun stuff.

But seriously you grow out of that stage. Now adays I realize what sucks and what doesnt. All of life, and all people dont suck. In fact Life now adays is a hell of a lot better than it has been for most people in the past.

The important thing is to enjoy shit. And do what feels right to you, you must learn how to enjoy life and learn how to create stuff that makes it better for you and everyone else.

I have also found that to actually find one of these people that has been "completely brainwashed by the consumerist capitalistic bullshit" is really hard. Sure you can meet someone and think that. But if you actually get to know any of these people that you initially think this about you will soon realize that its not completely true.

Originally posted by metallix

is it ok to wake people up from the matrix or is it better to let them continue sleeping?

it's only ok if you think it's ok.

you could just end up having them feel that you're "another crazy".

i keep hitting these points in my life where i feel as though i'm totally awake, but maybe i'm not. i suppose that's only for me to ultimately figure out.

if, per chance, i did wake up to all of this and see the game as it is, and be completely comfortable in my skin at the same time, i don't think i'd tell anyone.

we are all slaves to our own minds, in my humble opinion. we were all raised to believe in certain things.."i can be the president!", etc. our parents taught us these things because they were taught these things.

most males were raised watching g.i. joe, etc....we all saw the prince save the princess from the evil dragon, and we all believed it.

hunter/gatherer....child bearing/meal preperation/basket weaver....do you see what i'm getting at?

we've got these preconceived notions that weren't even conceived by our own minds, it's been planted like a seed in every generation.

Originally posted by casekonly

it's only ok if you think it's ok.

 

you could just end up having them feel that you're "another crazy".

 

i keep hitting these points in my life where i feel as though i'm totally awake, but maybe i'm not. i suppose that's only for me to ultimately figure out.

 

if, per chance, i did wake up to all of this and see the game as it is, and be completely comfortable in my skin at the same time, i don't think i'd tell anyone.

 

 

we are all slaves to our own minds, in my humble opinion. we were all raised to believe in certain things.."i can be the president!", etc. our parents taught us these things because they were taught these things.

 

most males were raised watching g.i. joe, etc....we all saw the prince save the princess from the evil dragon, and we all believed it.

 

hunter/gatherer....child bearing/meal preperation/basket weaver....do you see what i'm getting at?

 

we've got these preconceived notions that weren't even conceived by our own minds, it's been planted like a seed in every generation.

well yeah they would naturally think im crazy because what im telling them doesnt fit into their own personal "matrix" (i hate using that word to describe the matrix but it really is the only word that has popular consensus.)

yes i see your preconceived notions. thats part of the problem ; one is so imbued with these cultural poisions that its extremely diffcult to even begin to get down to the core programming. theres literally wall after wall of blockades involved in reaching the [core]. the core has become so programmed im not sure if there is anything left to salvage. after a while your reality becomes a prison. but how does one liberate oneself out of that prison?

so if you found your way out of that prison, you would not tell anyone? how coudl you tell anyone, if its your own personal prison? am i assuming that there is a universal prison put upon us, or does each person have their own individual prison? is there a universal prison?

what i can figure out so far is that

A) we are stuck in a physical prison there is no denying this.

B) the perceptions of that prison vary

c) the perceptions lead to different mental interpretations of that prison.

and i think i know what you mean with those "totally awake" but not. like moments of self-realization. of understanding the entire moment. but those moments come and go and yet again we find ourselves in a state of passivity. i think passivity is the keyword here.

these ideas are being saved

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