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...a general discussion...

Discussion in 'Art & Design' started by porque, Dec 20, 2004.

  1. porque

    porque Senior Member

    Joined: May 5, 2002 Messages: 1,844 Likes Received: 0
    ...there exists a distinct difference between so called high art and low art...this distinction originally arose during the sixties with the advent of the 'outsider artist'...a term used mostly to define work done by someone that wasn't brought up through the institution of art (...i.e...university study)...this work, while recognized for what it was, was degragrated as basically art that 'didn't count' in the realm of the grand pursuit of Art..this divide has continued and grown to encompass differnt meanings...there are now 'undergound' artists and a whole system of galleries that show their work, while they are kept out of so called 'high art' galleries...the line has become much more blurred becasue many of these artists have been brought up through the art institution, yet the divide clearly exists...as people in school with me put it, "there are juxtapose artists...and there are art forum artists"...few are able to break through the divide, and since most of the artists spotlighted in this forum belong to the 'juxtapose' realm, i am curious about some of your views on the topic...
  2. wiseguy

    wiseguy Elite Member

    Joined: Mar 1, 2002 Messages: 2,543 Likes Received: 1
    woah, i just made a thread on art brut "outsider art" and your talking about it too... crazy.
  3. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623
    there is a kickass museum in my city that is only for "self-taught" artists. they've had a lot of really amazing exhibits.
    american visionary art musuem


    i am a self taught artist, i think art school and the art community can be very helpful in critique, in shaping the ideas that form ones work, but it also makes for a very purposeful, self concious style of art i think.

    one can easily be homogenized by the art world.

    i enjoy the whole outsider art thing a lot, except for classic artists like da vinci and picasso, etc, who i have spent plenty of time checking out at big art galleries.

    i like it all if it doesn't suck haha..
  4. IzacFour

    IzacFour New Jack

    Joined: Oct 10, 2004 Messages: 84 Likes Received: 0
    High end art is wanky and ambiguous.

    Low brow sucks but its the lesser of plenty evils.
  5. High Priest

    High Priest Elite Member

    Joined: Jan 1, 2002 Messages: 4,928 Likes Received: 4
    Low brow or No brow.
  6. brusheskill

    brusheskill Junior Member

    Joined: Sep 15, 2004 Messages: 195 Likes Received: 0
    low art is becoming the new high art. or is it? hmmmmmmmm... art worlds exists within differnt cultures or social scenes. one persons low art could be another high arts. this is one of those if a tree falls in the middle of the woods topics. you can go on forever and make lots of good points but there will always be a substantial response to counter what was just said. art is tight
  7. porque

    porque Senior Member

    Joined: May 5, 2002 Messages: 1,844 Likes Received: 0
    ...one of the issues is that this is not a question of personal taste or opinion...whether something is regarded as high or low is a direct result of the gallery it exists in and the context that surrounds it...education and the institution no longer have anything to do with it either...jeff koons is a self-taught artist, so was warhol...neither of them are 'outsider artists'...some of the most respected critics out there right now never went to a university and studied art either...this is what i mean by the line becoming blurred...

    ...as far as i can tell...the difference comes from the perspective of the artist, which shapes the context that the work is read in...an artist interested in self exploration and their personal view of what art is ususally degraded as an 'outsider'...these artists are not concerend about the context of their work that is relevant to the grand history of Art...inferences and critiques that place their work alongside movemnets driven by ideas concerning the nature of Art (...abstract expressionism...minimalism...popart...etc...) are completely irrelevant...The work is viewed in complete isolation, it exists outside of 'the pale of art history'...the viewer is presented only with what they see before them...someone that has seem a thousand shows and some one that has only seen one will most likely each read the work the same way...the work only exists in relation to the artist that created it...this perspective of art making is much more inviting for the viewer that is not educated on the history of art, it is easier to handle, and while still being eliteist (...becaseu quite frankly the pursuit of making, showing, or viewing art is absolutely an elitest activity...) it is alot less elitest than the pretentious pursuit of 'Art'...
  8. <KEY3>

    <KEY3> Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 24, 2004 Messages: 6,878 Likes Received: 2
    I may be completely off.....

    but high brow seems like it's all been done.
    The format isnt pushed because curators and
    patrons want to know what to expect. But then
    there's the whole elitest mindset of the art world.

    take for example Ken Danby. He's a hyperrealist painter
    that has no problems selling as much as possible. He releases
    mass printings and a lot of the 'respected art community' shuns
    him because they see him as a 'sell out'. He releases in larger
    batches and has a different idea of reprints then they do.
    Is his art not technically up to par? Certainly not.
    Has the art world decided that only they can be the judge? Yep.

    some examples:

    ^ you can see he's painting to a level that nears photography,
    and a lot of the respect world doesnt like it. Amazing skill or not,
    they want their art to be done their way or it just doesnt matter.
  9. SteveAustin

    SteveAustin Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 12, 2002 Messages: 7,042 Likes Received: 2
    art is subjective and always will be.

    some art that is high art was once considered low art..ie Van Gogh.

    its gonna constantly change. I do think that certain high art galleries are able to exert too much force and essentially make or break some artists.
  10. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    this is long and stupid. dont bother reading it.

    everyone could write a book about their life, but very few would be interesting to read. art is the same way IMO. anything can be art, but not everything can be 'good' art. high brow stuff that relies on a paper pedigree to carry it's weight is horse shit in the same way that low brow art that relies on a lack of pedigree to redeam it is. it's like doing 'girl push ups'. sorry homie, you're art is bitch made. i dont care what your background is, if you cant make interesting art that challenges the viewer or evokes emotion, then you are a shitty artist and you should stop. if you spent 8 years going to college for it, you should have asked me 7 years ago, i could have saved you a whole lot of time and money.

    ive never been a part of an academic art world, nor have i ever been part of an underground art world. i know people in both, but i myself am neither...primarily by choice. this makes me completely qualified to pass judgment on both.

    last weekend i went to an art show featuring a graffiti crew. they're all good writers, nice guys, and im sure great artists, but attending an 'art show' in someones loft is one of the lamest experiences of my fucking life. i'd rather have my stuff silently hanging in a coffee shop to zero fanfare than to have to endure standing around in someones expansive bedroom acting as if it's an accomplishment. it's a joke. it's like being in a band and playing someones halloween party. that's not a 'concert' homie, that's a waste of the effort it takes to unload the bass cabinet from the van. just stop.

    at the same time, a 'high brow' art show held in some stuffy gallery with a bunch of uptight pole smokers all dressed in black speaking with phony accents is just as fucking homo and ridiculous. i always secretly wish that they would get mugged on the way to their car. that would teach them.

    mostly i guess i just hate art. i like individual pieces and individual artists, but i have no use for any 'art world', be it counter-culture or otherwise. they're both just some bullshit paramaters that keep their inhabitants locked inside some pre-determined world of fucking lameness. the people i like and the people i respect are the ones who exist in both. who have the technical skill and ability to make 'high brow' art, but also have the emotion and passion to make 'low brow' shit. i like cats like dephect and abuse. fools that are so talented it makes your teeth hurt, but still get gully.

    seeks/skip to the end.
    seeks/this was the best critique ever written on art in the history of the world.
  11. <KEY3>

    <KEY3> Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 24, 2004 Messages: 6,878 Likes Received: 2
    I skipped to the end end but I stopped to laugh at the idea of pole smokers getting mugged.
  12. SteveAustin

    SteveAustin Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 12, 2002 Messages: 7,042 Likes Received: 2
    the wonderful thing about my low brow art is that I do it for me. I really could care less if anyone else likes it. Seriously. The stuff hangs on my own walls. Sure, I'd take the compliment and even better I'd sell pieces, but all in all...I really just like doing it for myself. I keep at least one of everything I do...sometimes I flip out and destroy them all or start all over again and paint over them.

    As far as the pole smokers dressed all in black or the ones that look "artsy"...I pretty much hate anyone that thinks they're better than me.
  13. <KEY3>

    <KEY3> Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 24, 2004 Messages: 6,878 Likes Received: 2
    my area is filled to bursting with those pole smokers.....
    only they rock babe and own chomper dolls.

    no offence to anyone.
  14. kidlugz

    kidlugz Guest

    I don't even know what to say about the 'art world'. At times I regard it as a pulsating mass of artificial personalities gathering under the guise of 'appreciators of art'. Art openings function solely as social event where like minded rubes can gather to discuss the latest in "who fucked who" or whatever inane issue may be hot at the moment.

    But when i supress the cynic from within I begin to see some value in these events. Sure, many attendees are probably insecure, needy humans desperate to latch onto some kind of identity, but many are surely just as disgusted with the superficiality as i am. I think it's a matter of simply detaching yourself from the fluff and seeing only what you want to see. Many creative scenes/intimate communities are the same. Participants share a common interest, but many enjoy the human interaction more than whatever brought them together in the first place.

    This shit used to really get me down (I think I had a Holden Caufield complex), but now I just laugh at the absurdity of the whole thing.

    "pre-determined world of lameness"

    Oh, and I'm stealing this phrase ^^^^
  15. kidlugz

    kidlugz Guest

    You're from T.O yes?

    what are chomper dolls?