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A different perspective

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by Beast, Sep 12, 2001.

  1. Beast

    Beast Member

    Joined: Jul 2, 2000 Messages: 990 Likes Received: 4
    i got this in an email today and thought it was thought provoking; I don't really feel liek getting in a heated debate just something for people to read and think about. Thanks

    One of the biggest cliches of our age is that we live in a global village. Part of what this means is that our actions, and inactions, have consequences to human beings across the planet.

    In the United States, thousands of what were called innocent civilians, going about their everyday lives, were killed today. But, as unthinkable as this may seem to you, millions of poor people across the "third world" will celebrate this moment, will be dancing in the streets.

    Why? Because the United States, and the first world as a whole, are now experiencing a tiny fraction of the misery and devestation that they have caused around the globe for generations.

    In North America these events could trigger a new wave of xenophobia and militarism. However, it could also cause people who are living, whether they know it or not, in the heart of an empire to ask, earnestly: "why would somebody do this to us?" As the United States tries to decide at whom to point the finger, perhaps they'll realize that this attack could have come from peoples in almost every corner of the world.

    How much do you know about what the US is doing in Columbia, "the new Vietnam"? About the NATO Chinese Embassy bombing? About the equally "faceless and cowardly" bombing of the El Shifa pharmaceutical plant that supplied Africa with medicine? About the School of the Americas? About the Sanctions on Iraq that have caused the slow deaths of, literally, hundreds of thousands?

    The point is not that people in the "first wold" deserve this kind of violence but that they are necessarily a part of it. If you choose not to inform yourself about what goes on in you name then you are willfully ignorant, not innocent; and in a global village you can no longer expect to remain unaffected. You may be the victim of somebody's desperate attempt to wake you up out of you "first world" sleep.

    Here are a few resources, hastily garthered, that you can use to try and inform yourself:
    - Killing Hope: A History of US Interventions Across th Globe by William Blum.
    - The Canadian Palestine Suport Network and Jewish Unity for a Just Peace at www.canpalnet.ca and www.junity.org
    - The magazine Covert Action Quarterly, who monitor first world militaries and intellegence agencies.

    Now, GO LOOK FOR MORE, 3:19pm, September 11th 2001
  2. brown twinkie

    brown twinkie Veteran Member

    Joined: Jan 6, 2001 Messages: 8,127 Likes Received: 0
    another interesting spin on things........
    this event is raising so many questions.............
    but......it still remains that it was still
    a disgusting and heinous act.......and people
    did not deserve to die......yesterday or any other day....
  3. cracked ass

    cracked ass Guest

    I've always seen this perspective as well. I figured terrorism would make it here eventually, and considered us rather coddled on the issue, given the shit regularly endured in Northern Ireland/Britain, the Middle East, etc. by everyday people. I was surprised by the magnitude of the attacks here, but not that they happened. In fact, I was surprised to see that the Oklahoma City bombing was a domestic incident, I first thought that was the wake-up call that overseas terrorists could hit shit here.
    When you have the nerve to police the world, as the US does, you're going to make some enemies. Nobody "deserves" anything, just the facts of life in a hostile world. Nobody should approve of the violence, nobody should be surprised either.
  4. couldnt of said it better. you up for a game of chess capt. vocab?
  5. bigpoppa.k

    bigpoppa.k Elite Member

    Joined: May 2, 2001 Messages: 3,151 Likes Received: 17
    so what do you think now? i think you're still on it. I think it showed others that if people in their own country can cause that much devastation, what would we (being PROFESSIONAL terroists) actually be able to do with serious planning. "Lets go to the US".

    [This message has been edited by bigpoppa.k (edited 09-12-2001).]
  6. maskoner

    maskoner Member

    Joined: Nov 4, 2000 Messages: 900 Likes Received: 0
    i posted this in another thread, but it looks to be sinking on the board (too little too late):
    i kept saying i wasnt going to continue this post... hell, i keep saying i am going to quit reading this board, but here are my thoughts:
    i believe it is possible to understand without condoning. i mean, try and understand why this happened. i live in a world that created these terrorist, so am i not too responsible for these attacks? i think it is about time that humans take responsibility for the products of the world they have created. i mean, i dont believe i can wholy empathize with anyone, but i try and think what it would be like to be in these situations... i feel sympaty for the citizens of the country that produced these terrorist. the pearl harbor refrences SCARE the shit out of me, knowing the tragedy that asians faced after that incident... i feel sympathy with anyone with an "alternative view," knowing the consequences of post-WWII action. imagine what these people were thinking... we created them. do you think hitler thought he was wrong? honestly. i try to consider myself wholy a pacifist in most situations but i really could give no alternative to world war 2 or other tragedies. they made our world what it is today, and that happens to be the most certain/real/perfect world in which we live. get off this good/evil trip and realize it has never been "either/or," but has always been "both/and." people are capable of the most horrendous things, but at the same time, the most caring. believe me, i view what happened yesterday as inexcusable. this is hardly an american tragedy, but a human civilization tragedy. but, at the same time so many more things are possible today than were yesterday.

    "let this acceptance take." shakespere in henry V.

    the revolution just got televised.
  7. Harpo Marx

    Harpo Marx Senior Member

    Joined: Feb 7, 2001 Messages: 1,525 Likes Received: 3
    The difference is that it was done by people who hate our country, our way of living, and our people. They think we're evil (oh yes, George W. Bush is the harry-assed one himself). And it all happened at once, tens of thousands of people gone in a single day. It's not a gradual thing with people fighting and dying, this case was suicidal people stealing a plain with our people on it and crashing it.
  8. chicken bone

    chicken bone Guest

  9. 23578

    23578 Elite Member

    Joined: Jul 2, 2000 Messages: 2,521 Likes Received: 0
    great topic as well. not surprised indeed! back to even more insanity we want to go, burn some more shit and maybe we can see more (soon to be dead) bodies. not surprised even more. we are all guilty of capitolism's vast destructive mathematical monstrosities, let this truly be a wake up call to start paying off at least half of our material debts. . .all of us. stop this people from blundering fucking of the world, where do we start, economics, volunteerism, planting a garden, giving blood regularly, _____________(your own personal sacrifice here), ------------(an inventive way to prevent waste of life here), .............(a way to stop dependances on heavy foriegn material here), start simple and keep up the pursuit, it's apparently not too late.
  10. boxcarwilly

    boxcarwilly Senior Member

    Joined: Nov 8, 2000 Messages: 1,288 Likes Received: 0
    i completely have been saying this since the beginning when all the close minded people who decided to make idiots of themselves including media personnel sitting there screaming the only people who could have done this were the arabs. what the shit is that. this is definately a global community at which amerika thinks she is at the top and in control, when nothing is controllable all the karma that is due to amerika as a whole is gonna hit. we have fucked over way too many people. way too many. and finally we are getting a small dose of what has happened behind our backs without the media propaganda.
  11. bigpoppa.k

    bigpoppa.k Elite Member

    Joined: May 2, 2001 Messages: 3,151 Likes Received: 17
    I sent that to a few friends of mine hoping to get some feedback. Some good, some bad. But what I got from my buddy in the canadian army stunned me. "That was completely inappropriate."
    So I emailed him back with this response:

    Appropriate? Did you see what happened? Going and hiding under you bed would be appropriate. Nothing would be APPROPRIATE at this point. Tell that to the 15,000 people that just lost their lives in the
    most INAPPROPRIATE event, at the most INAPPROPRIATE time. Don't take this the wrong way, it was meant purely to make a few people think. I didn't write it, but I found it extremely interesting and it
    made me stop and think. Obviously it did the same to you because you took the time to respond. Try and think outside the box on this one Rich. I understand you have some different insight on this being
    that you are a part of our military forces, and i'm intrigued at what your points of view are on this one, but this wasn't meant for you to take personally. If you know people who have lost their lives in this
    tragedy, my apologies and my condolences go out to you. I've been completely numb for the last 2 days, as well as many others I know, but from all the people I have spoken with it just confirms one thing...
    This tragedy is a hell of a lot deeper than most could ever grasp.
    This was an almost perfectly executed militaristic operation to cause the most amount of damage, loss of life, and chaos possible. Unparalleled in depth and scope. And they got away with it. For now. But
    now the larger questions come to mind. How'd they do it, and why'd they do it. What's happened has happened, it's time to move on. Next phase, the questions... and the response.

    I really hope you weren't surprised about this event. Shocked, angry, bewildered, flabbergasted yes, but surprised? I hope not.
    The question that has come up the most in the last couple of days has been "WHY?". "Why did this happen?", almost like people are completely dumbfounded as to the reasons. These are the ignorant. It
    doesn't take a lot of effort to read up on past events and historical accuracy's (and inaccuracies), but it does take a little effort to go to other sources besides the unbelievably biased North American media. And those are the wilfully ignorant. And i'm sorry, but that's 80% of north america.

    Don't get me wrong here. I want the fuckers to pay just as much as the next guy, probably more. Me personally, I want to see a nuke. I know it won't happen but that's how much it has affected me. There is no excuse for what they did. Nuke 'em all is what I say, flatten them. Wipe the whole lot of them off the planet, but that won't do much except make them angrier. It's also counter productive. It looks like I may have lost a couple friends
    and acquaintances in this melee and it would not satisfy me more than to see that whole nation melt (whoever it was). But...
    We need to be able to step outside of ourselves and look at this situation from the third person, and take a good long look at "WHY". Why did this happen? The exact unequivocal answer we may never know,
    and they'll be writing about it until after we're gone, but there have been a few hints. And unless you've been hiding under a rock you should have seen a couple of them as well.

    There isn't one singular reason it was done. Just like there isn't one singular action that can be done to get retribution for this. If we go in and nuke 'em, it won't stop the unbelievable hatred those few nations
    have against the U.S. And it won't stop the breeding of hate mongering humans that those countries produce. It's deeper than that. Hating the U.S. is now a religion. And until people realize this and actually understand where these people are coming from, the cycle of terror around the world will continue. And no amount of bombing will stop it until EVERYONE'S dead, including us. And that's a fact.

    So as far as appropriate goes... It goes out the window when the largest terrorist act in the planets history goes down on home soil.
    And what amount of time would have been appropriate? A week? A month? A year? I can't answer that, and you sure as hell can't either. The truth hurts sometimes, so you can't distinguish what's appropriate
    and what's not. You just have to deal with it.
    Fox television got exclusive rights to some tape of the first tower collapsing. They ran it unedited and in my flicking of the channels I stopped at this. To my shear amazement, disgust and speechlessness, it showed someone running from the debris and as they got within 15 feet of the camera, the man collapsed as if shot in the back. He got nailed with falling debris and died trying to flee. I'll have that picture in my head for the rest of my life. Did they run that video anymore? No. Was it appropriate for FOX to broadcast that piece of video? Probably not. But its reality. And in light of the circumstances, I don't
    blame them.
    So please don't respond to an email I send out (under these circumstances) with, "I don't think this was appropriate Dylan." unless you're actually going to say something in response. I was hoping for A
    point of view from you. But if you can't grant me that, don't say anything at all.
    And i'll say it again... Appropriate is out the window.


    I'll leave you with a little something... FBI agent escorting suspect of original bombing in '93 to the court house last year - "See, look at that (pointing to WTC towers), they didn't fall. They're still standing,
    you didn't get them".... "Not yet" the terrorist replies with a sly smile.