9/11/01 - 9/11/11: Ten Years Since

Hey all,

In the midst of the onslaught of media coverage of the 10th anniversary of 9/11, I figured this thread would be appropriate. Just a lil' discussion about what's happened since. Not a poll.. this is crossfire after all.

Americans:

Do you feel safer or more endangered after 9/11?

How has American culture changed since 9/11?

How do you feel about the attacks themselves? Were you affected directly? Indirectly? How?

And anything else you want to add...

Non-Americans

How did your perception of America change after 9/11? After the Iraq/Afghanistan wars? What it is like now?

What do you think we should have done in the wake of the attacks?

My own answers will wait ... I was a small one when it happened. They announced it at school and a LOT of people were freaking out because their parents worked downtown. (i'm from DC area). My ma worked in the middle of the city at that time and walked 10 miles and then caught a bus home ... nothing was running. Father drove. It was pretty surreal.

Hey all,

 

In the midst of the onslaught of media coverage of the 10th anniversary of 9/11, I figured this thread would be appropriate. Just a lil' discussion about what's happened since. Not a poll.. this is crossfire after all.

 

Americans:

Do you feel safer or more endangered after 9/11?

How has American culture changed since 9/11?

How do you feel about the attacks themselves? Were you affected directly? Indirectly? How?

And anything else you want to add...

 

Non-Americans

How did your perception of America change after 9/11? After the Iraq/Afghanistan wars? What it is like now?

What do you think we should have done in the wake of the attacks?

 

My own answers will wait ... I was a small one when it happened. They announced it at school and a LOT of people were freaking out because their parents worked downtown. (i'm from DC area). My ma worked in the middle of the city at that time and walked 10 miles and then caught a bus home ... nothing was running. Father drove. It was pretty surreal.

Do you feel safer or more endangered after 9/11?

I feel the same as I did about safety in this country pre-9/11, as I do now 10 years after the fact. There was no terrorism in this country, or any major terrorist attacks other than domestic home-grown terrorism like Oklahoma Bombings (which has it's own slew of conspiracy theories), and random shooting sprees. Besides that, most of the "Islamic terrorism" hadn't hit home and was all overseas, and most Americans weren't even aware of it. Today, I don't feel any fear of Islamic terrorism killing me, my family, or any of my friends... and 9/11 itself didn't even really make me feel that way either. 9/11 just made me question a lot of our foreign policies and how an attack like that could occur, and then of course all of the lingering questions that lead down the conspiracy theory road. It didn't make me feel fear though.

Today if I'm scared of anything it's the increased police state presence and policies that are anti-liberty and anti-american in my view. The airports have become blatant expressions of this. Some neighborhoods around my area are starting to look like prison yards. I'm more scared of authoritarian paranoia than of terrorists over seas plotting attacks. I'm scared of seeing what this country will become with the phantom menace of terrorism hanging over our heads. I'm not scared for my personal safety, I'm more scared for the nation's safety overall if we continue heading down this path of rhetoric that will lead to a clash of civilizations... for example, if we end up going to war with Iran, or China due current circumstances that could lead us in that direction.

How has American culture changed since 9/11?

I don't think American culture has changed much since 9/11, because we are already headed in the direction of an authoritarian fascist corporate state. Many of our rights were still somewhat existent, but trampled upon anyway. What changed with 9/11 is that authority in this country finally had an excuse to step over the line and further degrade liberty for the individual. The excuse of terrorism was broadly applied to many different circumstances and authority grew, government grew, the police state grew, militarism grew, while everything else diminished. We replaced liberty with security, and now today we pretend that there is some sort of balance between the two when it isn't true.

How do you feel about the attacks themselves? Were you affected directly? Indirectly? How?

First of all, I feel that the truth hasn't been told about the attacks. I don't feel that the official government conclusion is adequate, and I feel as if there was lot's of information covered up by homeland security. Whatever that information ends up being is up in the air... I can't say that it was an inside job or that bombs were in the building because the fact is that I don't know and there isn't substantial proof to bring that accusation forward in a court of law, but what I do know is that there was a lot about 9/11 that was covered up and left unanswered. That alone to me is very suspicious. I also think that the 9/11 attacks can be the smoking gun for a lot of issues that are currently at the forefront of the nation's most important political debates... the economy, civil liberties, foreign policy, etc. 9/11 is the key debate that needs to be addressed in order to repeal a lot of the behavior this country has taken since those attacks, but for the most part this conversation/debate is over and most people would rather keep it in the past than actually question and investigate it thoroughly. There is a lot of hubris, arrogance, intimidation, and personal beliefs that crowd and prevent any debate about what happened on 9/11 from being constructive.

I was probably indirectly affected by 9/11 since, even though I live in NYC, I thankfully didn't know anyone who was killed in the attacks. So, I was indirectly affected by all of the tyrannical authoritarian behavior we've engaged in due to those attacks, and the effects it has had on our communities, neighborhoods, our economy and our nation in general.

The only thing I'd like to add is that, we are now 10 years after 9/11. We are still in Iraq. We are in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, and we could possibly be engaged with Iran in the near future. Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, have died as a direct result of the 9/11 attacks and our military response to them. Humanity has a right to know specifically, definitely, what actually happened on that day... all of these unanswered questions that linger deserve to be investigated properly by non-governmental institutions without restrictions and limitations on the necessary information.

rip osama

its a tarp

When the attacks happen I wasn't actually much of a fan of America, mainly due to stupid 'HELL YEAH WE ROCK' attitudes and things that I just thought were ridiculous like crazy gun crime and no healthcare (things that still bother me). I also kind of had an attitude that something like this was bound to happen at somepoint in time, just because of Americas foreign policies. So my thoughts to America as a country were quite indifferent, however to the individuals people who were affected etc I really felt for them because that isn't really something that you would wish on anyone.

I happened to be off work that day and having a huge arguement with my wife and I had live news on TV and it happened and we just sat down and watched the whole thing, it was definitely one of the craziest things I have watched.

My immediate thought after it happened was oh no, this is going to kick off so badly, and having Bush in power, for a while I was worried the moron would go off and nuke someone. I am not a patriotic person and even if something like that happened in the UK (well i suppose it kinda did on a smaller scale in London) I got annoyed with all the huge outbursts of patriotism, no one seemed to look at reasons why someone might have done this and it seemed more like people just wanted to lash out, maybe that is just how it was reported over here.

As the UK is involved in both those wars, I suppose I will wait til we are done and completely out of both before commenting on that, but I was definitely against them both. As for what should have been done, I really don't know, America would not have settled for them not doing anything about it, but I don't know what sort of intel they were getting maybe they could have done it in a more subtle way.

Overall, 9/11 didn't change my opinion on America at all, but over the years I have a better appreciation for America, mainly through wasting so much time on 12oz and chatting to a few of you. Also I am a lot less angry than when I was younger so no point hating a country just seems pointless and futile.

rip osama

i hope that letter "p" stands for piss.

No one should still believe that 'islamic terrorists' committed the attacks on 9/11

it was an inside job and sadly the media hasnt woken up to this fact, hopefully you all have.

well, opinions are like assholes....everybodys got one.

Not much has changed for my feeling of safety. Well, I actually feel more threatened by state repression now than ever and I think the state benefits when these kind of things happen

I think most of here, who are graff writers as an example, can feel the change of culture first hand. Before 9/11 were we being questioned for benching? Was getting into places (mass transit depots ex.) looked at as anything more than a threat to 'national security'? pre 9/11?

911 why it's still important and still important to question

by Ryan Dawson

http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26577

There is a bit of a stigma about questioning the events of 911. This arises from a rather loud mouth 911 kook movement which ranges in its speculations from missiles on up to space aliens, which people do not want to be associated with. The other skepticism just comes from authoritarian types who either can't believe the US would allow/involve itself in attacking its own people, or they can't believe a covert operation is even possible, which is more naive between those two positions you can decide. It is not wacky or unpatriotic to question the events surrounding 911. Moreover it is even more important to understand what the event of 911 led to: the ongoing bloody wars, erosion of civil liberties, and the growth of a security state. All of which have come with a heavy price tag morally and financially and have contributed to the US's massive debt and perhaps to the future collapse of the dollar itself.

 

It's hard to know where to start on 911 there are so many things wrong with the "we got attacked out of the blue because they hate us for our freedoms" ignorance. Lying about why someone would want to attack the US is bad enough but then listen to the story of Who allegedly attacked the US. The media said it was done by 19 Muslims guys who conveniently left us a list with their names and plans on it, on their final hour (at least in the final version of the events) as well as not one but two magical unburned passports (one discovered near ground Zero by a NY police Chief Bernard Kerik, who is currently in jail for fraud) the other from flight 93 of hijacker Ziad al-Jarrah whose first cousin Ali al-Jarrah was later busted in Lebanon as a spy for Israel. They also left a nice neat paper trail complete with qurran's left at strip clubs and bars by the devout Muslims... Some will say the list was left for their fame, only that doesn't make sense because officially the list of names was in the luggage of Atta who was taking it on his final flight and just by chance his bag happened to not get checked in on its connection flight. Best of all their leader Usama bin Laden who the US intelligence agencies went out of their way to botch chances at apprehending, was said to be hiding in Afghanistan, a target of the US well before 911, over pipelines. In fact he US had already setup invasion drills prior to 911. "Usama" whose name quickly became Osama (maybe to remove the USA at the front of it) was said to be in a high tech cave in Afghanistan plotting the next moves of Al Qaeda. The high tech caves which Secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld said there were many of and the Pentagon drew up cartoons for didn't actually exist. In 2011 Obama announced the US found killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, no photos were released, and his body was dumped into the ocean.

 

There was pre-written legislation ready to pass, and when it looked like it might not work, there was an anthrax attack to help push it along. This was initially blamed on Al Qaeda who oddly even though "they hate us for our freedoms" decided to rope Israel into the mix as well by declaring "Death to America death to Israel" and just in case you forgot is was Muslims from 911 they also wrote Allah is great and 09-11-01 as well.

 

Which is funny because it would later be the Israeli security forces claiming to have witnessed a transfer of anthrax from Iraqis to Al Qaeda at a meeting in Prague, which was impossible since neither Iraq nor Al Qaeda had anthrax and there wasn't even a meeting in Prague. How does one witness a transfer of something at a meeting that didn't take place between tow parties that didn't have it? The target choices of the military grade, made in the USA anthrax were interesting as well: the two senators against the patriot act, Patrick Leahy the judiciary chair in a position to block it, the other Tom Daschle the senate majority leader also calling to investigate 911, were sent lethal spores where as warmongering Fox News and Judith Miller and WMD liar were sent hoax anthrax. The locations of the sending were also suspicious as they mimicked Al Qaeda's cell locations in Florida and New Jersey before reports of where they where were public. Despite all these holes in the anthrax story it gets far worse. A letter written to the DOJ jumped the gun trying to frame someone for the attacks, the problem being it was mailed two days after the first anthrax had been sent but long before any of the letters had been opened or reported on.

 

Worst of all even though by December on 2001 the FBI knew it was looking at domestic terrorism, the anthrax myth persisted about Iraq and Colin Powell used this scare tactic in his speech to the UN as evidence of WMDs in Iraq, saying they could produce anthrax and kill thousands. Speaking about mobile weapons labs, a lie echoed by a now convicted criminal Judith Miller who spent 85 days in jail over the Plame/Libby affair, Powell said to the UN while holding a mock vile of Anthrax:

 

Text source

 

 

Vice President Dick Cheney also continued this lie on Meet the Press March 16, 2003 re-stating the same propaganda.

 

The FBI ordered the ames strained destroyed, and then went on a wild goose chase through different suspects who had been pegged by the ADL and ultimately landed on a guy Bruce Ivins who has an odd suicide overdosing on Tylenol. (Later evidence shows he could not have made the anthrax from his lab.)Dr Perry Mikesell also a prior suspect also had a strange suicide. More on the anthrax case here. Also a timeline Video here.

 

Safire, Miller, Schmitt, and Sky news had a variety of lies about chemical and biological and even nuclear weapons in Iraq, all baseless but all getting MSM attention. (mobile labs, weapons under the palaces, Iraq able to hit the UK in 45 mins with chemical weapons, etc) And these lies would be bolstered by DOD officials, Perle, Fieth and Wolfowitz all three war profiteers. There even a special office created in the DOD specifically with the task of generating a war with Iraq. This same office was busted spying for Israel, however the trail dates for that were moved 9 times and eventually tossed out as the list of criminal accomplices grew so large it threatened too many government officials, the highest in the land. The narrative was set and the US was one yellowcake away from another 911 fueled war.

 

Of course the congress caved on the Patriot Act, and both wars. And a commission was finally set up to deal with investigating what happened on and prior to 911. This Commission was a see through joke and the victims families of 911 have never been satisfied with it. Most disturbingly was the commissions treatment of WTC 7 which collapsed straight down in the same manner as the other trade towers, only it had not been hit by a plane. The commission did not even bother to report on this at all. Someone at the pentagon surely didn't mind as it was missing trillions of dollars and the SEC in B7 was physically destroyed simultaneously with the financial wing of the pentagon and ONI investigators. 911 families were so distraught about the non-investigation they even raised their own money to create an television ad about it. But no answers have come. No one was fired at the FAA, NORAD, FBI, NSA, CIA, with all the obvious screw ups, but there sure were a lot of promotions.

 

A great number of Americans have suspicions. And this is rightly so. This is a government that lied openly and unapologetically about Iraq, sold nation building there as a cake walk. The rationales flip flops from saving the Kurds to invading inspectors (all untrue) and sold nation building in Afghanistan on such notions as women's rights, and spreading democracy. In reality the US installed a puppet in Afghanistan and the first legislation passed was to agree the US with it's Saudi Partner Bin Laden construction, could build long sought after pipelines and reopen the heroin drug trade important for financing off the books operations in the same manner as Iran Contra did from Cocaine.

 

It's been nothing but lie upon lie upon lie from 911 to now, so why would anyone trust the mass media's government talking points on 911 after the obvious non-investigation and how perfectly it was used to strip civil liberties and increase government power and post cold war MIC spending. We have info showing elements in the NSA and FBI either made notorious screw ups or were in on it. We also have evidence of foreknowledge, impossibilities in the hijacker narrative, and monstrous financial connection tracing back to Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Most damning of all Israelis were busted not only lying about the anthrax, but being arrested on 911 in two separate occasions. One was in a van spotted filming the first plane hitting and celebrating the attack, the other in a truck packed with explosives! The men were discovered to be working for the Mossad, and the owner of their front company Dominik Suter (and his wife) fled to Israel. The Polish and Italian transcripts of the FBI's suspect list include his name. But there has been a massive white wash. Furthermore reports from eyewitnesses, police and firemen, about secondary explosions in the WTC, even reports of explosive devices being found, as well as the fact there entire subway was filled with smoke and lobbies of the WTC 1 & 2 were blown in before the WTC collapse, almost instantaneously with the plane hitting far above the base, have been ignored. They were on TV live and then never revisited. This is why people question 911.

 

So what really happened? ... Answer

 

Certainly the "they lied to create wars" part is solidly defended. But they lied about 911 too is harder for some people to swallow. Why? Probably because of the tainted stain on the subject from jonestown types and twoofers. Don't let them put you off to it. People still say stupid things about JFK as well. But the fact remains JFK was shot from the front, it's on film and indisputable, thus there must have been at least one shooter in front of him and that could not have been Oswald, thus there is a conspiracy. The problem is, in trying to research JFK you will get lost in the sea of lunacy "theories" and perhaps give up on the matter. Sadly that is was is happening with 911 as well. People go to look at it and get lost in the ether of stupid that is out there. There are many who just cannot admit the Israeli role in 911. And there is the opposite too who blame nearly everything on Israel forgetting the US's own major role. Some of the other junk out there is not worth mentioning. Most focus on what didn't happen rather than what did, and leave out the larger picture of the wars, anthrax, and DHS aftermath. The above video links it all together showing who had the means motives and ability to cover it up. It's up to you to review it and push this to the top so that a grounded rational factual face of 911 truth can prevail and hopefully lead to action. Law Suits need to be made. People need to be on trial and classified info needs to become public. Otherwise, they got away with it and ruined America in the process.

Ron Paul on 9/11: Ask the Right Questions and Face the Truth

http://www.ronpaul.com/2011-09-11/ron-paul-on-911-ask-the-right-questions-and-face-the-truth/

Ten years ago, shocking and horrific acts of terrorism were carried out on U.S. soil, taking nearly 3,000 innocent American lives. Without a doubt this action demanded retaliation and retribution. However, much has been done in the name of protecting the American people from terrorists that has reduced our prosperity and liberty and even made us less safe.

 

This is ironic and sad considering that the oft-repeated line concerning the reasoning behind the attacks is that they hate us for who we are – a free prosperous people – that we must not under any circumstances allow the terrorists to win. Though it is hard for many to believe, honest studies show that the real motivation behind the 9/11 attacks, and the vast majority of other instances of suicide terrorism, is not that our enemies are bothered by our way of life, neither is it our religion or our wealth – rather it is primarily occupation. If you were to imagine for a moment how you would feel if another country forcibly occupied the United States, had military bases and armed soldiers present in our hometown, you might begin to understand why foreign occupation upsets people so much.

 

Robert Pape has extensively researched this issue and goes in-depth in his book “Cutting the Fuse: The Explosion of Global Suicide Terrorism and How to Stop It”. In fact, of the 2,200 incidents of suicide attacks he has studied worldwide since 1980, 95% were in response to foreign occupation. Pape notes that before our invasion of Iraq, only about 10% of suicide terrorism was aimed at Americans or American interests. Since then however, not only is suicide terrorism greatly on the rise, but 91% of it is now directed at us.

 

Yes, the attacks of 9/11 deserved a response, but the manner in which we responded has allowed radicals in the Muslim world to advance a very threatening narrative about us and our motivation in occupying their lands. Osama Bin Laden referred to us as “crusaders” with a religious agenda to convert Muslims, westernize their culture and take control of their resources. If we had targeted our response to only the thugs and criminals who attacked us, and refrained from invading countries that had nothing to do with it, this characterization would seem less plausible to the desperate and displaced. Blaming Islam alone is grossly misleading.

 

Instead, we chose a course of action that led to the further loss of 8,000 American lives, 40,000 wounded, and has left hundreds of thousands seeking help from the Veterans Administration. We are $3 to $4 trillion poorer. Our military is spread dangerously thin around the globe at the expense of protection here at home. Not only that, but we have allowed our freedoms to be greatly threatened and undermined from within. The PATRIOT Act, warrantless searches and wiretapping, abuse of habeas corpus, useless and humiliating circumstances at the airport, are just a few examples of how we have allowed the terrorists to win by making our country less free. Suicide terrorism did not exist in Iraq before we got there. Now it does. There are no known instances of Iranians committing suicide terrorism. If we invade and occupy Iran, expect that to change, too.

 

Sometimes it can be very uncomfortable to ask the right questions and face the truth. When a slick politician comes along and gives a much more soothing, self-congratulating version of events, it is very tempting to simply believe what we would like to hear. But listening to lies does not make us safer, even though it might make us feel better about ourselves. The truth is that ending these misguided wars and occupations will make us safer, more prosperous and more free.