theprotester Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 so does anyone else here think the planned parenthood shooting was a result of religious extremism? Can't really see it as anything other than exactly that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist 666 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 You've got 3 options. 1. Dude is mentally ill. 2. Dude is a gun nut who wanted to shoot people, randomly chose PP. 3. Dude is a christian terrorist. Note that option 3 does not rule out 1, and PP being random is highly unlikely. The faked PP body parts videos are likely fuel for this nutcase's fire. Reading about the guy he is a loner who lived in a run down RV without power or water (unsure about septic....). I'm curious to find out what was in his duffel bags and if he left a suicide note or manifesto or anything. On a side note, I hope I look that fucking crazy when I'm his age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 re: PP in Denver it's obv terrorism. but no way will anti-abortion wingnuts ever tone down the rhetoric. they think this guy saved lives. it's beyond fucked. white people. Carly Fiorina Calls Planned Parenthood Shooter a 'Protester,' Decries 'Left-Wing Tactics' http://theslot.jezebel.com/carly-fiorina-calls-planned-parenthood-shooter-a-protes-1745122854 New York Times Decides Not To Use the Word 'Gentle' To Describe the Planned Parenthood Shooter, After All gawker.com/new-york-times-decides-not-to-use-the-word-gentle-to-de-1745124689 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I don't know if they ever deserved any sympathy. Look at what the entire rest of the world has done with their time and resources in the same period that these guys have been "waging war" against eachother. When you're too poor to do anything except throw rocks at eachother and rape to "get the enemy back", it might be time to find another "profession". I simply don't feel sorry for retards that want to remain with their heads buried in the sand. Pick up a book and read, get on the internet and visit some sites..... figure out what the rest of the world is doing, because it definitely isn't that. It's not hanging out holding eachother's cocks watching the bollywood remake of broke back mountain while planning the next attack on the neighbors. I wouldn't feel too bad if one side agreed to disagree..... or if they could just get it over with. It reminds me of a lot of dancing around and not getting the hay maker in. Let's get that hay maker or you guys kiss and make up. you really have to understand what the western powers did to the persian and ottoman empires. made a lot of promises we didn't keep, installed a lot of terrible people as dictators (after promising democracy) then generally left them to their own devices. there are also a lot of places where things aren't all bad. as bad as Erdogan might be, Turkey is an awesome country. and while I haven't been to Lebanon or Jordan, they are secular places. if you do wanna know more about how the western world fucked the middle east, this is a heady book, but it's great: and more about the US' role in all things awful: or online, free chapters change from time to time: http://williamblum.org/books/killing-hope/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakfast menu Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 when you say spot-hunting you talking about spotlighting deer, then blasting them while they're frozen in place? Not very sporting of you. nope! i mean going places you shouldn't, sometimes by breaking things, to find cool places to paint. totally different. thanks for book recs symbols 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Chump Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 FIST - that body parts video was faked? Is that fully confirmed or widely believed? SYMBOLS - Not really sure I'd call Lebanon a secular state given its dis-functionality, Hizballah's representation in the parliament and their control in the south. It's secular on paper but the government (as in the nation's security forces) can't enforce it's authority over the nation's territory in full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Man Banned Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 BFAST- LOL, been at the range too much and not at the yard enough! Hunting for spots, duh! :) SYMBOLS, and anyone interested in the Killing Hope book- he's had probs w/ publishers, making the book unavailable at times. The book has been updated a few times, I believe a new version is coming out 02/2016. In the meantime this may be of interest: http://williamblum.org/aer/read/140 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~KRYLON2~ Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 religion can be used as a tool to manipulate and condition a population to go to extremes and show no remorse because they think they are doing gods good work. unfortunately people who fall prey to religious extremism have little to no education and economic means so a twisted interpretation of gods word is all they know. this creates an individual who feels they have nothing to lose but gods admiration for carrying out extreme acts of violence in gods name. on a side note religion is very powerful because you have a belief that cannot be broken without punishment from the creator. so you have a person that feels that laws made by society are not potent enough to create discipline, they think its ok to take matters into their own hands to uphold gods laws. Religion is just as deadly as a loaded gun when it is used to provoke violence in society Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Man Banned Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Education does not = intellect or the use of intelligence. There are educated people with strong religious views that amount to douchebaggery IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~KRYLON2~ Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I agree there are intelligent people with strong religous views. In some cases they are the ones that use religion to manipulate other people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakfast menu Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 and we weren't even done talking about the last one.. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakfast menu Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 FIST - that body parts video was faked? Is that fully confirmed or widely believed? so there were a few videos. the "faked" one is a ** heavily edited ** video that PURPORTS to show a moving fetus on an examination table. a few media sources have said it's so doc'd that it's a likely fake. carly fiorina iscatching heat for taking it as 100% fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~KRYLON2~ Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The fact is that people are fucking dumb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Obama seems so helpless and disillusioned by congress at this point that America seems rudderless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Also this is clearly domestic terrorism. Why the FBI are trying to pussyfoot around and call it anything else is completely beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 about those PP videos that are incredibly doctored http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/08/20/3693340/planned-parenthood-video-photos/ Anti-Planned Parenthood Group Caught Passing Stillbirth Photo Off As Abortion http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/07/14/attack-on-planned-parenthood-3-deceptive-edits/204419 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Obama seems so helpless and disillusioned by congress at this point that America seems rudderless. wtf is obama supposed to do? he tries to accomplish something that might be controversial, congress immediately passes a law prohibiting what he tries to accomplish. america doesn't seem rudderless to me, it seems incredibly stupid. i don't really even care anymore about these shootings. america wants guns, and this is the price. congress won't even allow gun STUDIES to happen. http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence "In the immediate aftermath of the massacre in Charleston, South Carolina, the US House of Representatives Appropriations Committee quietly rejected an amendment that would have allowed the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to study the underlying causes of gun violence." yay, gop.. that's government! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I don't know that gun law is a good discussion to have here without offering up what exact changes to the current gun laws would suffice as acceptable in it's efforts to protect those wronged by guns in the hands of bad/ignorant people. I hear people bring up how changing our gun laws needs to happen for these killings to stop, but I _NEVER_ hear the person with this "great idea" actually offer a great idea. Any mouth breather can point out that something has to change for things to improve. It takes quite a bit more thought and intelligence to form a path forward. Anyway, that ends my rant about gun law discussion. Litigate it all you want but one universal thing holds true. You CANNOT legislate morality. You cannot make laws that guide people into being good people. People that are scum bags will be scum bags and no amount of rehab or good people surrounding them will keep it from being that way. We need to start actually acting like we're in space. You know how on all those space shows where if you do anything stupid you just get killed. Like no questions asked, we don't have time for your waste of resources in space when we're incredibly limited. We're incredibly limited on this planet we're on right now, but nobody is acting like it. Then, to top it off, we have these dumbasses fighting a religious war because they haven't learned the most basic elementary school thing called "respect your neighbors." Or you know, here's a good one, "treat others how you wish to be treated." Do you think that the terrorists would act the way they do if there was a possibility that they'd all be easily wiped out with one sweep? It's never going to happen that way.... and that's why they will continue to get away with what they do. They know they can hide. Their whole premise of existence is upon being a coward and attacking peoples' backs. edit: also thank you Symbols, I'll check those books out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~KRYLON2~ Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 even if stricter regulation of gun sales and gun owners happens I feel like it wouldn't stop mass killings. people will just find other means to kill other people with pressure cooker bombs, pipe bombs, etc. you could make public places more secure with added security measures but if someone is on a death mission there's not much you can do to stop it even with heightened focus on intelligence gathering and increased man power. the fact is that you will never be completely safe and that's part of living with other people in society no matter where you live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Chump Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 To a point I agree with that but then you'd expect similar trends in similar countries, which doesn't seem to be occurring. Just controlling access to guns isn't the whole answer but it has to be part of it. What the rest is I'm not sure but likely involves education, upward mobility, reduction of religious intolerance and extremism, reduction of glorification of violence (seriously, can we swap violence in popular media for sex instead? We'd be in such a more enjoyable world if we could do that...), etc. Stricter gun laws and cultural shifts take generations as well. There's noting that can be done that would 'fix' the problem in our lifetimes, there's already far too many guns throughout the US (Russia, Pakistan, Former Yugoslavia, Thailand, Northern Africa and the Mid East, etc.) to make a quick fix like Australia was able to achieve after Port Arthur. We were lucky that we had a government - that I otherwise wasn't fond of - that bit the bullet and changed the gun laws early on in the piece. There's still gun crime, of course, but mass shootings are a huge rarity because there simply isn't the prevalence of firearms in society....., which is a good thing in the age of post-Mumbai mass shooting terror attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 wtf is obama supposed to do? I guess that's my point. Easy for me to say in a country that introduced gun laws nearly twenty years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Man Banned Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 This is not about Americans wanting guns, we've wanted them and had them since any explorer 1st set foot here. Do we really need gun studies? Guns do not kill people, people kill people. Prevalence of firearms doesn't necessarily mean shit. The vast majority of legal gun owners are not guilty of mass murders. As someone else pointed out, as I did before, you also can't prevent murder or mass murder, it existed prior to firearms. Most other U.S. gun deaths are from minors accessing firearms, or from jerk off street thugs who are not trained in how to safely and proficiently use firearms, and who have obtained them illegally. Those are the daily gun death stories of America, overshadowed by these more extreme acts. As for improvements, there are some easy ones that people do not want to accept yet. People with severe mental illness or developmental disabilities should not own or have access to weapons. On a contributing, but lesser level, the country could do more to promote mental health and draw awareness to, and increase treatment of, mental illness. Increased awareness of gun safety and procedure. I don't think I've ever seen a TV ad or otherwise stating (the obvious) about gun locks, keeping weapons from minors, not purchasing guns for others who can't purchase themselves, etc. On a recent firearm purchase, my paperwork came with additional paperwork attached warning that it is now law to keep your weapon secured if someone under 18 is in the house, and that you're liable if they obtain your weapon. Extremists. We're ignoring what we discussed earlier- that this is not about religion. If the U.S. (and other countries) wasn't sticking it's dick in the dirt of other countries we might still not be liked, but they're not going to exert the effort to come after us, especially on our soil. The U.S., France, and Britain have all bullied the countries that the terrorists come from to exploit their natural resources supposedly for these three countries' interests, but really, more for the interest/greed of politicians and corporations. If this wasn't happening the terrorists would have little to no beef with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprotester Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Presence of firearms clearly means more gun deaths. It just does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty_habiT Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 These are very good points. I think it boils down to our pompous attitude towards the rest of the world. I've considered several times moving from the USA. USA's problems as DHABZ sees them: 1. We are a rerun of the roman empire right now. 2. Our "people" are too misinformed to make educated decisions about who their leaders should be. 3. Our pool of leaders to choose from is comprised of "turd sandwiches" and "giant douches" because: $$$$. 4. We have this thought that we should have a ton of charities that operate by taxing people that work hard and have earned a good living. 5. Our population is enthralled with themselves. Facebook is the epitome of "shameless self promotion" and "humble bragging" combined with misinformed idiots making matter-of-fact type statements and meme pictures that influence the gullible. 6. Our Drivers License test allows any napkin packer the ability to pass within minimal effort. 7. There's this general attitude of "being the best". Which is funny to me because there are civilizations here that are thousands of years old.... you would think they hashed out all the "simple shit" that we're trying to figure out already.... but we're smarter and better right? Anyway, to circle back I was raised as a Christian and those are still my beliefs. I think the extremist groups that make the news often are real scumbags. Westborough comes to mind. I'm only sharing this with you all because it the grand scheme of my life, it won't matter if you know this about me. The point is that you can believe whatever you want without making it someone else's business. The second you cruise your faggy mountain bike to my front door and knock trying to "spread the word", you've made it my business. When you bomb a school or a government building, you've made it all of our business. It's about having couth in your dealings with others. Don't share your beliefs unless people are opening that conversation with you, and I doubt if they are opening that conversation they're saying, "hey could you tell me how you feel by bombing me or by showing up at my son's funeral with picket signs and act like an asshole?" My opinion is that if you're not contributing you're taking away. More people need to learn to contribute to our future rather than worry about their new ear expansions, faux hawk, being covered in tattoos, driving a certain car, having a certain paycheck, or dating a certain number of people. I mean this subject can be beaten to death really. I'm not singling anyone out or saying anyone is wrong for what they do because i'm 100% guilty of doing things that don't contribute..... the difference is, I think, that I'm very conscious of these things now and I focus on making them better. I don't know how many other people in the world think this way. edit: I also forgot to mention that Japan outlawed guns a long time ago. Guess what, there are still mass killings, but now they're done with knives. It's not like the people wanting to injure others decided that they didn't want to anymore because guns weren't available. If anyone thinks making it harder to get a gun will somehow fix the problem with people within our walls hurting eachother, then they've very naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Chump Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 people kill people. Yeah, so why would you give them guns? If people kill people why would you want to make it easier for them to do so? I say that as a former competition shooter and marksman. I love shooting but am happy to not have an AR/AK to know that he dude next door doesn't have one either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~KRYLON2~ Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Well you probably don't need an ar/ak because you know how to shoot lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!@#$% Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I think it boils down to our pompous attitude towards the rest of the world. I've considered several times moving from the USA. . I wanted to travel the world since I was a kid and as an adult I started doing it I've been a lot of places and I will be moving away from the US, knowing full well hoiw many other great places there are. we're on a 5 year plan.. roughly whenever our dogs get old and die. the US is most definitely in decline, and frankly I don't expect it to improve for anyone except the richest among us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Man Banned Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Yeah, so why would you give them guns? If people kill people why would you want to make it easier for them to do so? I say that as a former competition shooter and marksman. I love shooting but am happy to not have an AR/AK to know that he dude next door doesn't have one either. I don't want them to all have guns. Not all people kill people. You wouldn't have everyone give up alcohol because drunk driving kills would you? You'd also be fooling yourself if you think that taking your neighbor's gun makes you safe from your neighbor. Recent events have placed a focus on the means but not the problem. 9/11 was accomplished with airplanes, but we don't ground airplanes forever. Eliminating all guns does not eliminate extremism. On the other hand, it would make it more difficult for the American military to piss on another country that poses no credible threat to Americans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Chump Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I don't want them to all have guns. Not all people kill people. You wouldn't have everyone give up alcohol because drunk driving kills would you? No, but I don't see people planning drunken massive attacks in cars that kill large amounts of people in a single hit, either. Also, alcohol is heavily regulated, driving drunk is illegal and there are strong attempts to stop it. We know it's a problem so you're not allowed to do it. You'd also be fooling yourself if you think that taking your neighbor's gun makes you safe from your neighbor. It may not but it sure as hell makes me SAFER. He can't kill me from a distance, he can't mow me and my family down in seconds and he can't stab me through a door. Sure, he could make a bomb but that requires far more effort, knowledge and risk to him (in many ways) and it's not something he can do in a fit of rage as it takes time and planning to bomb but takes seconds to grab the gun and pull the trigger. Recent events have placed a focus on the means but not the problem. Yep, reduce the means and you reduce the problem, right? Of course you still have to address radicalisation, marginalisation, alcohol issues, domestic violence in general, psychological issues, etc. etc. However there is one great constant and dominating factor in the recent mass killings - guns. Difficult to ignore that glaring point. 9/11 was accomplished with airplanes, but we don't ground airplanes forever. Sure, but that's happened how many times? Once. How many times have mass shootings occurred? How many gun related deaths are there a day in the US? Hijacking a plane and terrorism in general is illegal and a lot of effort goes in to combating it. IT takes a lot of effort and planning to successfully hijack/bomb a plane (in the West at least). It takes no effort at all to grab a gun and a poo-load of mags and cut down a shopping centre or restaurant. The comparison between hijacking a plane and shooting up the public seems a but redundant to be honest. Eliminating all guns does not eliminate extremism. Nope, it wouldn't and as I said up the page it's only part of the solution - and extremism isn't the core issue with guns, it's only the most prominent one right now. Sandy Hook, Colombine, etc. was not due to radicalisation and extremism, it was easy access to efficient and easy to use killing machines. Regards to radicalism and extremism, there are many, many things to be addressed and the whole of the problem is far from fully understood. And with that in mind, it would be awesome if these people that exist could get the means to waste us so easily! Much easier to detect people making bombs than it is some one acquiring a gun and some bullets. Anyway, look forward to your response but I'll probably leave my side there. If I lived the states I'd definitely have my house armed, but that's because most of the places I've spent time in over there I saw guns everywhere and I'd have to level the playing field a bit - but I'd hate the fact I had to arm myself to feel safer. In Aust, I just don't have that need. Guns are few and far between and I do not at all feel threatened. We come from different realities on this front and the gun debate will likely go on past our lifetimes given the polarised nature of the discussion. Didn't really want this to turn in to a gun control discussion as we've had that on these pages many times and no one has really shifted their position. I think we can all agree that guns a great fun but it sucks that arseholes use them in ways that reduce everyone's quality of life. Back to hating on terrorists and Putin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~KRYLON2~ Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I thought this thread was about religion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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